Let's Talk Clermont

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We start off with quick county news on the M/I Homes referendum fight headed to the Ohio Supreme Court, then we talk with West Clermont School Board candidate Rich Glisson to discuss school funding, pensions, and how to rebuild trust with voters.

You’ll hear:

-A brief primer on Ohio’s five public pension systems and how “pickup” arrangements work, especially STRS “pickup on the pickup.”

-Why Rich favors an earned income tax approach (and how it could track growth) alongside sunsetting certain property taxes.

-A candid look at entry-level teacher pay, a top-heavy admin structure, and ideas to move dollars closer to classrooms.

-Concerns about legal spend vs. peer districts and the value of public, on-record questioning by the board.

-Coordination gaps among township, county, and schools on growth, TIFs, and capacity and how to fix them with real communication.

We finish with a quick events rundown for Oct. 10–18 across Clermont County.

Correction noted in-episode: When discussing tax options, Rich clarifies an earned income tax applies to residents who live in the district, not everyone who works there.

Bills mentioned: HB 473 (pickup prohibition), HB 280/SB 239 (OP&F employer rate), HB 73 (OPERS DROP for law enforcement), HB 413 (state/local spend database), HB 96 (FY26–27 budget; STRS governance), SB 69 (retirement reform intent).

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[00:00:11] Unknown:

We've been living in it since so long.   All   Welcome to episode 28 of Let's Talk Claremont. I am your host, Patrick,   and thank you for tuning in. We're I'm happy to have you here. Happy that you're listening.   I'm happy that it's fall. I've said it before. The weather's great.   I really even though it's been a little rainy, but I really like to be able to go outside and not, you know, sweat profusely.   So that's been a that's been a really, really nice time for me. And I will admit,   I am starting to get excited for Christmas. I I know it's extremely early, but I'm kind of a sucker for Christmas, especially with kids. It's really fun.   So these candidate interviews have,   really been, I guess, sparking some interest, bringing in some new people. And if you are new,   thank you for listening.  

But let's just talk about what we're doing here.   We're gonna start off with a little bit of news from around the county, then we'll get into our interview. And then at the end, we'll wrap everything up with some events that are going on,   around the county that you might be interested in attending.   So let's get into it.   To start the news section, we're gonna talk about the Ohio pension fund just a little bit.   In the interview today, we talk about it a lot,   and specifically,   these pickup plans.   Now the interview talks about it, and I don't wanna, you know, go into too much detail because I'll let the interview   speak for itself. But I thought it would be good just to give a little bit of context and background,   because I didn't know Rich was gonna I'm normally pretty good at anticipating where these things are gonna go,   but I didn't anticipate this, and I was kind of unprepared.  

I'm not a finance guy, so I'm kind of unprepared   was unprepared to talk about pensions. But Rich did a really good job of walking me through it.   So I think in terms of background, the first place to start is what is a pension? Because I kind of knew what a pension was. I knew it was   some kind of retirement plan and similar to a four zero one k.   But a pension is an employer   employer sponsored retirement plan that provides income   in retirement,   and there are two main structures. There's a defined benefit. This is gonna be a traditional pension   that promises a specific benefit,   oftentimes a monthly amount of money   based on a formula.  

And that formula is typically   something to do with your salary and years of service.   There's also a defined contribution.   So this is gonna be more like a four zero one k, where you and or your employer   contribute to your individual account. And what you get depends on contributions   and investment returns.   I believe all of Ohio's,   pension plans are more like the defined benefit traditional pension.   So how do these actually pay you? Well, a traditional pension is it's kind of like an annuity.   And some plans offer a lump sum. So that's how you can kind of think of of a pension.   And in Ohio, there are five pension plans.  

There is o p e r s. I don't know if people say OPERS, but that's what it looks like. It's the Ohio Public Employees Retirement System. This is gonna be for state, county, city, village,   and,   all kinds of other public employees.   There is STRS   Ohio. This is what we talk a lot about in the interview. This is the state teachers retirement system, and it's for k through 12 teachers   and many higher ed faculty. So think,   like, the Ohio State University.   If you're a professor there,   I think you're probably,   eligible for   an STRS pension.  

Next is SCRS,   SERS,   school employment retirement system. Now this is gonna be for bus drivers, custodians, aids, cafeteria staff, stuff like that.   We have OP and F. This is Ohio Police and Fire Pension Fund. It's for full time police and firefighters.   And there's the HPRS,   State Highway Patrol Retirement System. That's gonna be for state troopers.   So let's talk about these these pickup plans, the employer pickup plans.   The first is a salary reduction pickup.   So in,   at least in the STRS,   your contribution of 14%   is treated   as pretax for federal and state income tax, and your taxable wages drop by that amount.  

Now your district does not pay anything extra. It just splits your salary into a cash salary and a deferred salary.   So your pension reported salary stays at the full amount, and there's no impact on the final average salary.   So here's an example,   using a teacher. If you're making $60,000,   14%   of that is $8,400   $8,400.   Your federal taxable wages   are going to drop to $51,600,   but STRS   reports $60,000   towards your pension.   The next is a fringe benefit pickup.   Now this would be your employer   pays 14%   on top of your salary.   Your federal taxable wages stay at $60,000   in the example that we used previously, and your take home is higher because you aren't having 14%   withheld.  

Now this method is going to cost the employer the pickup   amount. So let's go to an example. If you're making $60,000   a year, your employer   pays $8,400   as a fringe benefit. Your taxable wages are still $60,000.   And according to STRS, your salary   is $60,000.   And the last one, and this is the one that we talk, a fair bit about in the interview,   is a fringe benefit included in   in compensation   also known as pickup on the pickup.   In this, the employer pays 14%   and also pays 14%   of that 14%,   on the 14% pickup.   So the pickup amount itself   counts as compensation for retirement reporting only.  

Your federal taxable wages don't increase, but this also cost the employer more than just the normal fringe benefit pickup   and the pensionable and boosts the pensionable salary.   So and in the interview, I had trouble wrapping my head around that one. So let's talk about a concrete example,   again, using somebody making $60,000.   Your employer will pay 8,400   plus $1,176,   which is 14% of the 8,400   for a total of $9,576.   Now your taxable wages are still $60,000,   but according to STRS,   you will have made $69,576,   and that that amount will be part of your pension calculation.  

So that kind of, hopefully, will situate us a little bit better for the for the interview.   We also talk about, some state bills in the interview that are relevant for the pension fund.   So I thought we just really briefly talk about these.   And this isn't an exhaustive list, but I think these are the most important ones,   in regards to the interview.   There's house bill four seventy three, and this is going to prohibit any public employer from picking up   the member share of contributions to Ohio's state retirement system. So if that passes,   these these pickup programs,   would go away as far as I can tell.  

Next is house bill two eighty and senate bill two thirty nine.   This is specifically for OP and F employer contributions,   and it increases the contribution rate for police   in OP and F from 19.5%   towards 24%   over a phase in period.   The firefighter   rate will remain unchanged.   House bill 73   creates a deferred retirement option plan   or DROP,   or I'm just gonna say drop,   for OPERS   law enforcement members. This is gonna mirror other drop options   in other Ohio safety plans, and it's designed to be cost neutral.   Next is house bill four thirteen, state and local government expenditure database. It'll create,   state and local government expenditure database   and requires the state retirement system to participate and link to it.  

We have house bill 96, which is the main operating budget for, fiscal year 2026 and 2027.   And this involves STRS   government oh, I'm sorry. Governance provisions.   As enacted,   it will reconfigure the STRS board, so it will alter the compensation   composition, I'm sorry, and officer eligibility. So all of these retirement funds, I imagine, have boards that make decisions and steer them in the right direction.   This will alter how those people are chosen.   And lastly, we have senate bill 69, which is a statement of intent to reform state retirement systems.   It's a placeholder measure stating that the senate stating the senate's intent   to pursue retirement system reforms.  

There's no statutory changes in the text, nothing like that. It literally is like a sentence that says we promise to do this.   Oh, so that's all we got on pension plans. I hope you stuck with me through that.   So let's move on to some news, and we only have one item.   And it comes from Batavia Township.   MNI Holmes is suing the Clermont County Board of Elections.   It's over a planned development along State Route 222.   There was a citizen led referendum that, on the November ballot that's going to challenge the rezoning for the project.   The main objection to this project seems to be around the density. The plan calls for 239   homes on lots under a half acre.  

Residents are arguing that the density doesn't fit the surrounding one to two plus acre lots.   M and I Holmes is arguing that the petition language was misleading and could confuse voters.   Now the Claremont Board of Education voted unanimously   to keep the referendum on the ballot.   The case is now in front of the Ohio State Supreme Court on an expediated timeline because they obviously need to figure this out before the fourth.   The group behind the referendum also proposed a second ballot question   that asked residents if the township should eliminate planned development zoning altogether,   to prevent similar situations from cropping up in the future.  

So like I said, that's all the news we have, and that will lead us right into   we are a value for value podcast, which means if you find value in what we're doing, all we ask is for little value in return in the form of time, talent, or treasure.   For time and talent, just get in touch.   What's going on in your neighborhood? What's going on in your community? Who do you wanna hear from? Who do you want us to interview? Let us know, and, we'll talk about it. We'll do our level best to get those people on the podcast.   Also think about that question I asked last week. What's the character of our county? In all these zoning documents and development   stuff, I frequently hear we want to preserve the character of our county or our township or our village.  

But I think we need to know what that character is. What are we trying to preserve in the face of all of this development pressure? And I wanna hear what you think about that.   For treasure, go to the website. Click donate. You can donate via PayPal or Stripe, and I have neglected to mention this. If you donate via PayPal, you you can do reoccurring donations. So if the show's worth a buck a month, $2, $5 a month, whatever, you can set that up via PayPal, and that would   be greatly appreciated. Any dollar amount is greatly appreciated.   But for donations $50 and above, you will get a special show mentioned.  

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It's really great. Thank you. Thank you so much. And I think this is a good opportunity to talk about,   you know, I know $50 and $200. That's that's a lot of money, and I'm not really expecting lots of people to do that.   And I really do mean when you when I say any dollar amount is greatly appreciated.   But for $50 and below, another reason to do that is anonymity.   You know, I I won't tell anybody if you donate to the show when it's under $50.   So that's a good reason to do it for 50 and below.   I will say that and I thought about this a lot.   If you donate $50 and above, your your name's getting read on the show,   regardless, because I don't wanna get into a situation where somebody donates   above $50 and then sends me an email, and I missed the email, and I read their name off and, you know, now I've got somebody mad at me for outing them as a as a donor to the show.  

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Things I find that don't make it on the podcast.   And you get notified when a podcast comes out. So sign up for that and stay in touch.   Also, please follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or whatever it is you use for podcast. Helps to show up, but it helps you out because you'll get notified anytime there is a new episode. And as always, if you just wanna get in touch and say hi or whatever it is, info@let'stalkclaremont.com.   I would love to hear from you.   I'd like to give a quick update on the posting schedule because,   I didn't really anticipate or plan for as many candidate interviews as I have.  

With everything on the books, we're definitely gonna have to double up, if not triple up.   So starting next   week, it there's gonna be at least two episodes a week, if not three times a week.   Now I I wanted to be consistent with publishing these episodes. So after the fourth, we're gonna go back to the Thursday   every week just because I I like a routine.   But I I wanna get all these candid interviews out in a reasonable amount of time, obviously, before the November 4.   So the plan is just to publish until they're done. So that's a and next year, you know, I'm gonna try to, you know, think this through a little bit better.   But I honestly did didn't expect the response that I got. So,   also, sorry to enter what enter to anyone that I interviewed   before all these candidate interviews. We've got some really good ones. There's Steve Newman, the world walker,   who he literally walked across the world. It's super interesting. We talked to Sons of Toil.  

You know, there's Taylor Jonningman who's   training dogs for, sled riding. There's a lot of cool stuff, and I promise   if I've interviewed you that I'll be publishing your stuff, but it will be more than likely after the fourth. And I'm still only gonna send the newsletter out on Thursdays. I don't wanna flood your inbox with a bunch of emails, but I'm gonna put all the episodes for the week in that newsletter, which is just one more reason to sign up for it.   And it's another good reason to follow us on Facebook and Instagram or follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, whatever, so you'll be notified when there is a new episode, especially when we're on this kind of wonky publishing schedule. So that's all I have to say about, the publishing stuff.   So let's talk about next week's interview. We talked to Jim Dahlmeyer.  

He's a candidate for Loveland Council   and had a really good conversation with him. We obviously talk a lot about Loveland, but, specifically, we get into communication and transparency, which has been   honestly, I think   every single candidate I've talked to has brought up communication and transparency and wanting   local governments to be more communicative and transparent.   But we also talk about parks and trails and traffic fixes and growth, which is another thing that most candidates have talked about. So   tune   in next week to hear that.  

Today, though, we're talking to Rich Glisson, who is a candidate   for West Claremont School Board.   Again, great conversation. And like I said earlier, he brought up that state pension fund and had a whole bunch of facts, and he did records requests. And,   you know, normally, I'm good at anticipating where these interviews are gonna go, but I was unprepared for a pension fund conversation. But it was great. It was really informative.   He also wanted me to make a bit of a correction to something that he said. In the beginning of the episode,   we talk about funding the district. You know, they recently had a levy failed, and I think they need more money.  

And he talked about perhaps letting the property tax sunset   and replacing it with an earned income tax. And you'll hear more about that in the episode, but he misspoke a little bit. And he said, the earned income tax would be for anyone that works in the district.   He wanted to correct that and say it would be any for anyone that lives in the district.   And, frankly, I think it's commendable that he got in touch and wanted to make sure that he was he was speaking accurately. So,   thanks thanks to Rich.   And thanks to Rich for sitting down with me, and we're gonna wish him the best of luck in November.  

And I I've I know I say this about everybody, but I really do mean it.   You know, win or lose, it'd be great to have him back on, especially to talk more about this this pension fund because he's really he has really done his homework when it comes to that.   So with all of that said,   again, thank you for listening, and I hope you enjoy the interview.   Alright. We're good to go.   And I'll start this like I start all of them, and why don't you just tell us who you are and what you are doing? Okay. My name is Rich Glisson.  

[00:19:03] Unknown:

I've been a resident of Union Township since 02/2009.   We actually bought the house in 02/2008, but had to wait to move in.   I'm a retired firefighter from the city of Norwood. I spent twenty two years there as a full time firefighter and a paramedic.   And then, you know, I just retired in 2022,   and I've been on the Parks and Recreation Committee for Union Township since its inception about three years ago.   I've also been on the West Climont athletic boosters for the last two years,   as the vice president serving in that capacity. And I'm I'm just trying to run for the school board to try to make a difference for my community. Okay. And so what do you do now that you're retired from firefighting? What do you do now for work? I'm retired and back to work full time. Yeah. I'm a certified   safety professional for the Bureau of,   Certified Safety Professionals.  

It's just a certification. It's kind of the gold standard for for safety professionals. I work for a regional   company that does a lot of road construction. I think you said you're working on the 32 stuff. Yeah. Yeah. We work out on on 32, a lot of highway and bridge projects.   We have aggregate and limestone facilities across three states. We have,   asphalt facilities across multiple states,   and and we have some river and rail terminals. And I do safety for the company. I'm the senior safety manager for the company. Okay. So what what brought you out to Union Township Eastgate area? What why'd you originally come this way? We wanted to get out of the more urban setting Mhmm. And just move Boy, it followed you here, didn't it? It sure did. It sure did. It doesn't take long for things to expand. That's for sure. No. It does not. Yeah.   So, we moved we moved out here to just,   get into a different environment and,   you know, make a different living for ourselves. And I think I  

[00:20:46] Unknown:

presuming you have kids, I think I saw your Facebook picture. It looks like you have quite a large family. How many kids do you have? We have three boys, that have all graduated or two graduated from this. One was,  

[00:20:57] Unknown:

Glenn SD before it became West Clermont, one graduated from West Clermont, and I have now a junior at West Clermont. Okay.  

[00:21:04] Unknown:

So let's talk about the schools a little bit. You're obviously running because you think you can improve something. So what do you think needs improvement in the school district? Well, actually, let's back up a little bit   because,   frankly, I don't know. I know a little bit about West Clermont, but can you just give us an overview of the district and and kind of where it's at?  

[00:21:24] Unknown:

Yeah.   I guess   maybe talking about some of the the challenges that they're facing right now, what might be a good place to start. I think, you know, the the state has changed their funding model. Mhmm.   I really hurt Bethel Tate. It's hurting schools across the entire state, and it's a gigantic problem.   So that's number one.   Everyone's revenue is decreasing.   At the same time, our student population is increasing. Mhmm. They're projecting about a thousand new students over the next five years. I was gonna say, what is the middle school at right now? Isn't it, like, 2,000 kids or something? I don't know for sure the middle school. The high school is approaching maximum capacity. I think there's 1,800, 2,000 kids or so inside of the school. I don't know the exact numbers. Yeah.   But an increasing   student population, a decreasing   funding   or revenue stream,   and then we have a tax base that's kinda upset with the current district model of property tax, property tax, property tax.  

And they just   don't want to pass any new levies to increase that revenue stream. So And the recent levy failed. The recent levy failed. It was a combination of an income tax and a bond,   that were both supposed to be dedicated to building some new schools. We have some crumbling infrastructure, and it   infrastructure,   and it does need to be addressed. There are issues. Mhmm.  

[00:22:44] Unknown:

So I guess we can we can talk about how how do you think you should   approach fixing that problem? Because it seems like a tough nut to crack. It does seem like a tough nut to crack.  

[00:22:54] Unknown:

I think,   along the way,   decades of,   time passing   that not enough money was spent towards   repairs,   rehabbing,   upkeep,   in favor of keeping,   staff by raising salaries and that type of type of stuff, which is a a struggle that I think every district goes through.   But we've gotten ourselves to a point where we have to make repairs to the schools or the schools are really gonna have some serious issues.   And and that's a challenge,   when the when the tax base doesn't wanna increase their property taxes. And I don't blame them. I'm a resident also. I don't want my tax property taxes to go up. They've gone up significantly   in the last year and a half, two years just with new property evaluations and   assessments and those types of things,   along with, you know, the cost of your homeowner's insurance and everything else has gone up. So your total house payment has increased exponentially,   and people just can't afford an increase.  

Looking long term, I guess I'm more in favor of the   income tax model, the earned income tax model,  

[00:24:03] Unknown:

but only if So that's like an earnings tax, not necessarily an income tax. So that would be a tax on your net earnings, not your gross earnings. I believe it is. I believe it's on your net earnings. It's what you would file with your taxable income. And I think well, I think one of the advantages of that is because it's not   on your property,   you and   you you essentially capture apartment buildings.  

[00:24:27] Unknown:

You you capture anyone who works in this school district. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right? So it did so it's not based on property, I guess, is Correct. But the only way that I would even be in favor of raising,   a tax or putting a new tax out would be if we could allow some of those other ones to sunset. Mhmm. We had a tax increase in 2020, a tax levy that was, implemented in 2020 passed by the residents,   because we had to. We needed the money. But that money quickly disappeared when COVID nineteen came in and costs went through the roof for everything,   for everyone.  

The   surplus, if you will, dwindled   to the point where now we're, because of the cutbacks from the state, we're at a point where we need more money again.   I think if you do the earned income tax credit or not credit, earned income tax,   you have to let the property tax expire. And I think you can do that by   a minimal   income tax,   and still make more money than what you would draw in from the property tax. But   allowing the property tax to sunset would give relief to some seniors Yeah. And to people who live within the district but don't work here. Right. So they're going to get some benefit,   to the relief. And at the same time, our,   our revenue could increase   over what we're already currently drawing in. Because if you're capturing  

[00:25:45] Unknown:

it's essentially you know, if you have property, you would only pay that property tax and that would go in. But the earning tax, it might actually be a lesser tax than your property tax, but you're capturing more people. Correct. I guess that was my point about the apartment complexes and things. Correct. You're capturing more people, so you're getting a higher volume of revenue stream. Yeah. And that revenue stream then  

[00:26:04] Unknown:

increases   each year   as real earnings or real wages increase, that percentage population increases. Or as population or as the number of jobs and developments happen. So that number is constantly   changing, increasing, and potentially decreasing, hopefully not.  

[00:26:20] Unknown:

I don't think that really has happened. Well, if it decreases, then your school population is probably gonna decrease with it, which is kind of another nice thing about it. Right. It it's a,   a variable that moves and changes with the It's more responsive, I guess you could say. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.   So, you know, when you look at   I think a knee jerk reaction for most people if they look at any kind of government entity and they say we need more money, we need more money. My first question would always be,   do you need more money or are you spending your money perhaps unwisely?  

How do you think that plays do you think the school district could spend its money more wisely, or do you think it's doing a really good job? It just needs more money. I think there's a little bit of both. I think there are some areas inside of,  

[00:27:06] Unknown:

maybe contracts, not just employment contracts, but contracts with   vendors and other people where we can make some adjustments and try to save some money,   maybe find a new vendor for x y z,   get a lower rate, those types of things.   But we have to take a look at the whole picture. Right?   Every area needs to be examined to find out where those inefficiencies are, where we can make up some of those those dollars.   What I'm not a fan of is, you know, reducing   the salary of anyone. I don't wanna take money out of people's pockets or food off their table,  

[00:27:39] Unknown:

because that doesn't do anybody any good. Right? And people don't wanna move here. Well, if you wanna come here If you want the best people, you've gotta pay them. You've gotta pay them. You gotta pay those rates, especially when it comes to teachers. Correct. If you want the best teachers,  

[00:27:51] Unknown:

you gotta pay them. If we want the best educators, we have to pay, you know, the better prices, the better salaries, or at least have competitive salaries with really good benefits. Right.   Really good job of the benefits. And I think we do a decent job with the salaries.   The starting salary for our teachers, I think, is low.   I'm a fiscal conservative, and I still think that the teachers' salaries are low. Right. Right? I think if you talk to a lot of fiscal conservatives, they would they would I don't know about gripe about salaries, but but, I mean, if if a fiscal conservative is saying we're not paying people enough, then On the low end, we aren't paying people enough. Yeah. Those are the people that are coming in the door, the people who want to begin their careers   at one spot and hopefully stay in one spot for their entire careers. And I don't think we're doing a good job of attracting those people because we have a lower starting salary for our teachers. So I would like to see that increase,   but I do feel like on the top end in the administrative area, we are   above average in salary, but we're also, I think,   heavier on the number of staff that we have compared to other districts   within our,   same   parameters.  



[00:28:56] Unknown:

Sure. So I I probably should ask this question earlier, but how big it's a big school district. It's a gigantic school district. Do you know how many are, like, elementaries and assuming there's only one high school, one middle school. One high school, one middle school, and I believe there are six elementaries. Six elementary. So that's a that's a big like, I grew up in Middletown. I think we had something very similar, but Middletown was a city of, you know, like, forty, fifty thousand people. Right. So We have a total of of 900 ish employees.   Okay. So it's a it's a It's a fairly massive district. Yep. Very large district. Okay. So outside of   the the fiscal things,  

[00:29:30] Unknown:

how because I don't know this either. How do the schools perform academically? Are are they doing alright? Academically, over the last few years, we have done a really good job of improving our state scores, our   our status within the state as far as ranking goes.   I think our kids are getting a very good education. We have very good teachers.  

[00:29:51] Unknown:

It's just a matter of being able to maintain those services and those paying for it. Yep. Yep. So you talked about the state and and how they kinda rejiggered funding.   Can you if you know, because I don't really know that well, but can you explain what the state did? And and then I'll ask you another question. I gotta stop asking double barrel question. No. It's okay. It's okay. I don't know,  

[00:30:13] Unknown:

if I can relay   a 100% what they did. That's fine. Yeah. They changed the formula so that,   it's based off of the   average income in the state or in the, district in the school district. So if you make a high if you have a higher average income in the district,   they give you a lesser amount of money than if you have a lower,   average income than that you get more money from the state. So it's   percentage based on these the average salary.  

[00:30:41] Unknown:

And so what   what do you think the state should do to kind of because I think there's some winners and there's some some losers in the new calculation.   What would you like to see the state do   to maybe fix some of the things that aren't going so well with this policy?  

[00:30:57] Unknown:

One thing I think they could probably do is go back to,   funding the schools,   to the levels they were before they introduced,   the marijuana taxes and the casino taxes   because they sold it to everyone as, you know, this the revenue we generate from this is going to help to fund the schools.   And what I feel like they did is, for instance, let's say they gave a thousand dollars per student,   before, which I think the number is much higher than that, but just for number's sake,   all thousand dollars was coming out of the general operating fund from the state. And when they got new revenue from the casino,   if they had   another thousand dollars that they could give per student,   they quit giving the money out of the operating fund and just gave the money out of out of the casino revenue. Right. So instead of giving us $2,000 they continued to give us 1,000, but they're giving us money out of the casino fund. They just from Rob Peter to pay Paul. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's actually very common when it comes   to, like, lottery taxes, gambling taxes Yep. Or the the revenue that you get from all of that. And they're using that, I'm sure, for other Yeah. Areas to improve things within the state, but they need to get some of that back in line with where it was before to give   us, to give every school district more money. I think every school district deserves a little bit more from the state, hon. It's not, unique to West Clermont.  

I'm sure every district across the state, all 608   or whatever there are, could use more money. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,  

[00:32:25] Unknown:

do you know   do you know how much it costs to educate per student in West Claremont? Just out of curiosity.  

[00:32:32] Unknown:

If you don't, that's fine. I don't I don't have the exact number. I believe when they were,   proposing the levy before, we were somewhere   below the state average, but not far off. We were about a thousand or $2,000 per student off, which doesn't sound like a lot. But if you put 30 kids into a classroom, you could be 40 or $50,000   per classroom off of what the state average is. Yeah. So we are a little bit lower. But to me, that means we're doing well with the money that we have. Yeah. Especially if your if your academics are on par Yeah. And you're doing it for less than most. Yep. I'd I'd count that as a positive. Yep. I would too. So when we talk about levies and taxes,  

[00:33:07] Unknown:

because it's a hard sell,   how would you communicate this to people who are a little skeptical that the schools actually do need more money or you're just throwing good money after bad? I think it starts with transparency and I don't think our current board has done a good,  

[00:33:22] Unknown:

job of being super transparent with the community.   The the meetings that I've been to, the board meetings that I've been to,   there's a lot of   good information that's presented by people, members of the school,   but there's not a whole lot of probative questions from the members of the board. And   I'm not saying that those questions don't happen, but perhaps they happen behind closed doors or an executive session. And then when they come back to the general meeting,   those questions aren't asked in in public for people to hear. Like, someone like myself, I if if I was hearing them asking the tough questions that I might have,   it would it would make me more interested in what was going on than   coming out and just voting on issues   and not hearing the discussion behind the issue. So I don't think that they've done a good job in that sense in getting the information out that they've asked the tough questions. They've brought these things to light. They've   pursued all avenues. And I think that's where,   that   portion of it, collaborating with the community, engaging the community, being out and open, asking questions, being available.  

Those types of things are very important,   especially to our older community. We're very heavy on the the elderly Yeah. Popular citizenry inside of the the school district. And, frankly,  

[00:34:38] Unknown:

elderly citizens vote. Absolutely. I mean, they vote far more than especially in off years when it's not a presidential election. So   you've really gotta sell these to your elderly population, and that's a tough sell for people with their kids. It is. And that's why I say we have to let those property taxes sunset,  

[00:34:54] Unknown:

in order to pass a,   an income   tax   because retirement income, investment income, those types of things don't get that income tax. Right. It's an earned income tax, not, you know, from passive income. So if we talk if we look at the previous levy and you you've said tough questions and things like that, what  

[00:35:13] Unknown:

what is your analysis of the previous levy? And I think we probably talked about it a little bit, but why do you think it failed? And what kind of questions did you have about it? I I think the biggest reason that it failed is because of what we've been talking about all along. The elderly population just couldn't afford, not just the elderly population, but a lot of households can't afford new taxes. Do you and I don't mean to cut you off, but do you know what the the millage rate is for,   Union Township or West Clermont, what they actually collect right now? I don't. Okay. I don't. That's fine. Yeah.  

[00:35:43] Unknown:

But I know that a significant portion of what is collected in property tax goes to the school district. Absolutely. Very significant portion. Like, more than half of the tax that you that is collected,   goes to the school district.  

[00:35:55] Unknown:

So I'm I'm sorry. I cut you off on your question,   but we were talking about the previous levy and, like, your what did you know, what what do you think was good with it, your criticisms of it, and some of those tough questions you wish were answered? I think that we definitely need the new infrastructure,  

[00:36:12] Unknown:

but it doesn't come down to a matter of,   need. It comes down to a matter of ability to pay for those things. Mhmm.   I sat in on a couple of the, community action team meetings and some of the,   what I would have considered more of a steering committee meetings,   where,   they   wanted people the community to get involved and give them direction. But I I always felt like   the direction that they wanted us to go in was predetermined.   Like, we want you to end up here. Here are a couple of questions hoping that you'll come back to this conclusion. Yeah. And   I just feel like,   if they had   had more   more conversation with the community, not just the people who,   are involved in school because most of the people that were involved with these meetings were people who had children in the schools. Right.  

You needed to find people who didn't have children in the schools and find out what their thoughts were. Did you ask the elderly community, you know, what do you think about building these two buildings? Are you in support of this before we even travel down this path? I don't know how much money they spent on the consulting and everything else that went into putting this entire thing together, but it had to have been a lot. Yeah. And consulting isn't cheap. And the marketing consultant myself. Right. Consulting is Consulting is not cheap.   The time investment isn't cheap. Could that time have been better spent doing other things and investing in other projects?  

I just I wish they would have done more of that community involvement. And I know there's gonna be people who say, well, we had all these meetings and we sent information out. I still feel like it was only sent out to people whose names they had in their database, which are children of the school and Right. You are only getting a small sample size instead of the,   the at large community.  

[00:38:02] Unknown:

I you know, it's   I've talked to a couple   one published, Deidra Hazelbaker out in Loveland, and she's kind of on the same for the council,   better communication   with their constituents.  

[00:38:14] Unknown:

What kind of tools or strategies would you employ to try to actually communicate to the people that you need to communicate to? Well, number one, I was really happy when I got the email from you asking me to do the to do this podcast because I think that,   the the younger generation, not just school age kids, but people that have recently graduated   young families in their 20s, early 30s, those people are more in tune with this type of communication,   than they are with, you know, traditional media,   news stories or,   reading a story on Facebook or anything like that. So I think this is one avenue, but we have to do a better job of   town halls,   being at public events,   and just being available. Mhmm. Just having let it let people have access to you to ask questions.  



[00:39:00] Unknown:

Yeah.   So,   if you don't mind, let's talk about   because I think sometimes   and I don't know if this is true of West Clermont and Union Township, which I'm assuming is the township that mostly is West Clermont. Yes.   I think you you can get contentious relationships between, you know, city and township municipalities and the school district.   Well, first, I guess my first question is, is that true of   of West Claremont School District? Does it seem like they're at loggerheads or they work pretty well together?  

[00:39:33] Unknown:

I think that there's   some disconnect there.   I don't know that there's any, like,   prescheduled meetings between, like, township trustees and the school board where they can talk about,   well, if you guys do this, then it's gonna cause this effect over here. Maybe you should consider doing this, and it would help us out this way. Mhmm. I don't know if those types of discussions are happening. In fact, I think they're probably not happening, but that's also an example of that communication and that openness, that transparency that we need in order to move the district forward. I know there's a lot of people who are concerned about,   new housing developments that,   have been given some type of tax incentive to   bring that development here.  

I know that the current administration in Union Township is a fan of doing these TIFs, these tax incremental financing deals,   where they value the property when it doesn't have any assessments on a no property, no real estate, and they get a low value. And then once the TIF is signed, when the improvements are made to the property, whatever that new value is, the difference between the original value and the new value   is   a tax that's collected   that they don't have to pay to the county. Mhmm.   They get to keep all that money within the school, the, the the township.   They are making the school district whole as if it they were part of you know, the entire thing. So they're giving all that money to the school district like they should. But then on the flip side of that, what does that do to the county? Mhmm. You know, does the county then suffer in resources because they aren't collecting? So there are a lot of things that snowball and affect each other.  

I'm not sure that the TIF is the way to go all the time. Right. But at least right now, the TIF is working for the school district because they're being made whole. Right. It may the county may suffer in in some way due to a a loss of that potential revenue,   but,   it is good for the township.   It's helped the township not put on new taxes. They've been able to make some improvements and that type of stuff, but I think there needs to be better communication between the two.   We certainly,   at this point, don't need more,   more homes in the township to introduce more children. I just think that that's gonna bottleneck everything else up, make more problems down the road for the school district.  

But that's not our decision to make as a school district Right. Or as a school board. That's something that we need to collaborate with the township and relay to them our concerns as the school board, and I'm not sure that those types of conversations have happened. Right. And I'm glad you brought up TIFs and CRE because I'm from Batavia, and there's currently one there that's a quite a hot button issue. Yeah. And one of the complaints from the schools is that you're gonna add, you know, 700  

[00:42:07] Unknown:

more homes to our district,   but we haven't heard anything about an agreement. And there's other things to do with that. That's a whole thing.   The reason I'm talking about that is because I'm wondering how   we're growing. Claremont County is growing, and it's growing very, very quickly.   From a school board perspective,  

[00:42:27] Unknown:

how would you like to see that growth managed so that it doesn't outstrip capacity? I think you touched on a little bit, but Yeah. Well, number one is the the earned income tax where it, you know, it expands and contracts as the district does. I think is a a better,   at least   theoretically, a better idea and a better model to go with.   Obviously, we can't let all property taxes go and still survive.   I don't think that that's feasible at this point unless there's some large That'd be great. Yeah. It'd be fantastic if we get rid of all property taxes. I would love it. Every time I hear people getting rid of taxes, I'm like, yes. I'm for that. How are we gonna pay for these things? Right. How do the roads get done? Who shovels the snow? Who because it's not gonna be me. I'm like, I'm not I'm not equipped for that. And I you know what I mean? Right. And I don't wanna pay a private company to do that. I think you you always have to consider what is the the opportunity cost of the current decision. Right? What is that gonna cause down?   Do I have to give something else up? Do I have to make something else up? There's always an opportunity cost for every decision. Right.  

People that are in charge of those boards and making those decisions to consider all that stuff before they make their decision. Yeah.   So getting rid of taxes,   would love to see it happen, but don't think it's feasible. Right. But,   controlling   that by making it a variable that goes along with   revenue streams or not revenue, but   tax   incomes,   I think is the way to go.   But I think there probably ought to be some kind of   ratio, if you will,   land size to   the current,   poverty level, the current income levels. There should be some kind of a calculation that could be done that says this district can handle this many students. And when we get to that many students, then we have to raise our hands and say, okay. If we're at this model now, what other factors need to increase or decrease in order to get it so that we can build new developments and get more, you know, more students involved. Right.  

[00:44:25] Unknown:

But I'm not sure what that is. Right.   And so West Claremont's and this is just, again, kind of   a off the wall question, but  

[00:44:33] Unknown:

has there been any any discussion in splitting the school district apart and trying to make it more manageable? Not that I'm aware of because West Claremont was two school districts until '27. Well, I should take that back. It was one school district. It had two high schools. Okay. Had Amelia and Glen Estee. Okay. And in 2017,   they merged those because it was becoming too much to take care of two high schools. Right. So they merged it all into one. Okay. So they they probably don't wanna go backwards. They don't I I would hope that we don't wanna go backwards. Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough.  

[00:45:02] Unknown:

In the beginning, you you kinda touched on this, but   there had to have been a moment where you were like, you know, I should run for school board. So what what what was that moment like, and and what what's really driving you to do this?  

[00:45:15] Unknown:

Well, I'm glad that you asked. This is a subject that I'm sure that a lot of people don't want to talk about,   but I feel like   there's a program that all five of the state pension systems are   allowed to offer to their   pension beneficiaries,   the who are paying into the pension fund, the employees of the districts, the employees of the fire departments, police departments,   public works, all the public employees.   It's called a pickup plan, and there's three different ways that the pickup plan can be administered.   One is a tax benefit to the employee where it reduces their taxable income.  

The other is kind of a a wash, and the the last one actually increases   the   salary that's reported to the pension.   Okay? So I for example,   in the STRS system, the state teacher's retirement system,   the employer is responsible for 14%   of the employee's   salary.   They   contribute that to the pension system. Okay. And then the So in the pension, it's almost like a four zero one k. Right? Essentially, but it's a defined benefit system. So they know when they retire by the number of years of service they have times a multiplier.   That's the percentage of their highest three years of salary that they're going to get in perpetuity.  



[00:46:34] Unknown:

Okay.  

[00:46:35] Unknown:

Okay?   So   the pickup on the pickup plan is the one that increases the salary of the employee. Okay. Okay. So if an employee makes $100,000   a year and the employer is responsible for a 14%   donation to the pension board, the employee is also responsible for 14% of that. So 14% comes out of the employee's paycheck. Like a matching Like a matching. Yeah. That $28,000   or 28%   total goes into the pension fund, and that's what builds the fund for them to draw their annuity out of at the end. Yeah. Right?   Under the pickup on the pickup plan,   the school district or the taxpayer   is not only paying the employer   portion, they're also paying the employee portion.  

Okay.   So they're making an   enlarged   pension payment every year. Okay. The employee still makes that $100,000   but doesn't get that $14,000   taken out of their check, so they get to keep all their $100,000.   Okay. But when they report the income to the pension board for the year, they report it as a $114,000   in income.   So they're paying in at a rate of a 100,000, but they're drawing out at a rate of a 114. So when they retire, it's not gonna look like a 100,000. It's gonna look like a 114.   And currently,   the STRS system has $20,000,000,000   in unfunded liabilities.  



[00:47:54] Unknown:

I can pull that because I'm not a finance person, so I don't know what that necessarily means. That means that they owe out in benefits $20,000,000,000  

[00:48:01] Unknown:

more than they're able   to fund. That seems like a big problem. It is a big problem. And because of that, there's now a senate bill that's been introduced in the house. It hasn't been passed, and I'm sure it's in discussion.   Senate bill 69,   where they are,   trying to increase the employer portion,   read taxpayer Yeah. From 14%   to 18%   by raising it a half a percent a year until it reaches 18%. So they want more money from the taxpayer to help offset   some of this unfunded liability, this insecurity that they have in their their system to make it more stable and solvent,   and they don't wanna take it from the employee.  

Okay.  

[00:48:39] Unknown:

So let me let me read this back to you because I'm not sure I understand all of it. So with the and this is this just specifically for teachers? No. No. It's all five pension systems have the ability to do it. Okay. But the only one I,   got records request for and I know the data on is the STRS system. Okay. So if I'm a teacher Mhmm. And I'm like you said, I make a $100,000 a year.   At one of these pickups,   just one of these mechanisms in this pickup plan  

[00:49:13] Unknown:

Correct. The employer pays the whole 28%. The whole 28.  

[00:49:16] Unknown:

But I still get counted as if I make That extra 14. That extra 14%.   So in the case of $100,000   salary,   it looks like on paper, I make a $114,000   a year. But  

[00:49:32] Unknown:

I'm only paying in for the rate of a 100. Right. But I'm drawing out because my my pension is based off of my highest three years worth of salary Right. Where I actually only had three let's say, a 100 was my highest. I had three years of a $100,000. My average is a 100,000. I draw a percentage out of a $100,000.   Right.   If I   my income is being reported as a 114 and I have three years of a 114, I'm drawing out at a rate of a 114.  

[00:49:58] Unknown:

Right. Right. Right. The multiplier is times a 114, not times the 100. Okay. Well, that seems like an issue. Yes. And to make that up,   that whole thing up, the state is saying  

[00:50:11] Unknown:

we want to take more tax money from you. From the employer, they're going to raise the From the employer. They're taking tax money from the employer. They're taking tax money from the taxpayer. Which is also gonna compound the issue of they're taking money. They're not giving us as much Yeah. Yeah. In revenue, and they're asking for more in tax dollars. Right. So that further dwindles, they use be a squeeze. It's gonna be a gigantic squeeze. So how did you find out about this?   I did a records request for the,   contracts of the superintendent   and the treasurer for the district, and I saw the the language in there. Okay. I'm a retiree in the Ohio Police and Fire Pension Fund. I was gonna say you're probably in a pension fund. I am in a pension fund. I'm drawing a retirement from a pension fund. I paid in to my pension fund for twenty two years   at 14%.  

Yeah. I think from your From my paycheck. Yeah. From my paycheck. My employer didn't pay that for me. Right.   It's supposed to be,   a benefit for,  

[00:51:09] Unknown:

administrators. I was about to say, what's the intended reason for this?  

[00:51:13] Unknown:

As an incentive to bring these higher level   people in and, I guess, as a way to shield the actual salary from the taxpayer.   Because on the audit sheet, when you look at the, you know, finance sheet at the end of the year, it doesn't show that they're making an additional salary. Yeah. It just shows a larger pension payment than it needs needs to be. And when you say shield, I I don't wanna say ops obs I can't say that word. I should have chose that word. Obfuscate. Obfuscate.  

[00:51:39] Unknown:

Right?   It it's not so much like shield them from paying that, but more are you saying more like,   I don't wanna make it sound like people are being tricky about it. But No. I I I don't know that it's being  

[00:51:52] Unknown:

tricky,  

[00:51:53] Unknown:

as much as it's just because the taxpayers pay all this. Taxpayers. Like, they pay salaries. They pay, essentially, because we pay salaries. We pay pensions.   So it's all coming from taxpayer pockets.  

[00:52:04] Unknown:

And the the to me, the craziest thing about all of it is   from 1991   until 2016,   there were only,   a 195   entries. Okay. So what I did is I did a records request to the STRS to find out how many school districts were participating in this pension pickup on the pickup pension plan.  

[00:52:30] Unknown:

So not all school districts participate in this pickup plan? They don't have to. Okay. It has to be approved by the board. It's a it's a negotiated item. Sure. Sure. Right? It's So it did you would think of it almost like a benefit, like health insurance or something like that. Correct. Okay. And from 1991  

[00:52:44] Unknown:

until 2016, there were a 195   entries. Now the way that it's reported to me from or to anyone, I guess, from the STRS is under administrators or superintendents. So there's two categories. So every school,   almost every school has two entries out of that. So out of a 190,   you're probably talking about 90 to a 100 school districts that were participating in this.   On  

[00:53:09] Unknown:

And and real fast, West Claremont is participating in this. They are now. They are now. They were not then. Okay.  

[00:53:14] Unknown:

On 07/01/2016,   that 195   number jumped to 843.   School districts or? Entries. Entries. Okay. An additional 400 school districts. Right. Right. It's about because there's two entries for each school. One is an administrator category, and one is a superintendent category. Okay.   So about another four twenty or so school districts all jumped in at the same time on 07/01/2016.   And since then, that number is up to   ten fifty two entries. So about 500 school districts that are participating in this program. So  

[00:53:46] Unknown:

you said the program when did the program start? Do you say the early nineteen ninety one was the first entry,  

[00:53:52] Unknown:

that I received from the STRS on people who were participating in this program. So what what happened in what would you say 2016? 07/01/2016.  

[00:54:00] Unknown:

What happened then that caused that spike?  

[00:54:03] Unknown:

Your guess is as good as mine. I have my theories, but I don't Well, okay. If you don't wanna I don't I don't really  

[00:54:09] Unknown:

I don't really because that's interesting. If it's been around since the nineties, I mean, that's what? Thirty five years roughly? Yeah. And then suddenly in 07/01/2016,   you see a spike in people participating. I guess everybody just could have found out about it at then, but I I have a feeling it was a push from a national organization  

[00:54:26] Unknown:

Okay. That said, hey. This is a way to Okay.  

[00:54:29] Unknown:

Increase salaries and increase pensions and Is it just administrators and superintendents that can take advantage of this or teachers, everybody, or, like, the school janitor could take Anybody that the school approves  

[00:54:40] Unknown:

for this to happen with could take advantage of it. Currently, there are almost 20,000   people in the STRS system. 20,000 administrators, teachers, whatever category they fall into Yeah. In the state of Ohio that are participating in this system. And that's just the one pension system. I didn't even check the other ones. The other ones. Yeah. And if you if you take information, I went to dataohio.gov   and figured out what the average superintendent salary was,   average administrator salary. What is that? Do you know? The average superintendent was about a $130,000   a year. Okay. And the average administrator was, like, 109,   and combined, it was in the 1 twenties, I think, was the number that I came up with. Yeah.  

And then I went through and ran a standard deviation Yeah. Yeah. To get, you know, a range   and somewhere between 218 and $330,000,000   extra a year that taxpayers are paying into the pension system for these employees that should theoretically be coming out of the   so  

[00:55:37] Unknown:

where does what part of my taxes go to this pension plan? Do you know?   Like, is it my income tax? Is it my It's your property tax. My property tax. It's your property tax that's funding the school district, and the school district is making the payments out. Okay. So it's all coming out of your property. So the way it would work is I pay my property tax to the school district, and then the school district sets up the pension funds.  

[00:55:58] Unknown:

And then they The state administers the pension fund. Okay. And the state decides by law, it's in the ordinance, the Ohio revised code that determines what percent the employer pays and what percent the employee pays. But the money the money that goes into the pension fund comes from the school district. It comes from the school districts. And whatever revenue stream they get it from, whether that's from an investment that they have, whether that's from earned income tax, a school district tax, a property tax, whatever money that they get, whatever revenue they get, they're paying it out of their operating fund into those pension systems.  

[00:56:29] Unknown:

Wow. I'd   this is great. I had no idea that that was what and what made you wanna start looking into that? What was the   well, actually, let me let me back up because I'll I'll ask that question in just a second. Do you know   what percent, at least at West Clairemont, what percentage of their operating budget goes to this this pension plan?  

[00:56:49] Unknown:

I don't know the number that goes to the pension plan. No. Okay. Not not the percentage. I know that,   around   13 to 14%   of the overall operating budget goes to pay for the administrators.   Mhmm. And the other 850   employees of the school district make up about 54% of overall spending. Okay.  

[00:57:07] Unknown:

And so it's 54, and you said 14.   So that's roughly 70%   that they pay for personnel,  

[00:57:14] Unknown:

essentially. Yes.  

[00:57:16] Unknown:

That's a lot.  

[00:57:17] Unknown:

That's not untypical, though. No. No. No. No. No. Salaries are always gonna be the biggest thing. Yeah. Whether that's it's a private business or a public entity. Yeah. Well, I'm well, I'm also thinking just  

[00:57:27] Unknown:

that's a large percentage   of   people that you've gotta   then pay into a pension fund for. And if you're   paying 14%   and then   the whole I'm not sure I can spit back all of that, but   it seems like a big problem. It's around $700,000  

[00:57:44] Unknown:

a year. Yeah. An extra pension payment that the school district is picking up   that really should be coming out of the employee's paycheck. Now   with all of that stuff being said, I don't have anything against any of the people who are benefiting from this. No. But, I mean, it was a negotiated item. Okay. It was a negotiated item. Yeah. More power to them. That's what they negotiated. It's not like it's illegal. It's not illegal. It's completely legal. But, you know, if I if I work at a private company and I have a four zero one k,  

[00:58:08] Unknown:

my employer might match it. You know, they might say, we'll match up to 18%   or 8% because I'm 18% of everybody wanna work there. Yeah.   But I still have to pay into the four zero one ks. It's like health insurance. Yeah. Like they'll help me with health insurance and negotiate it, but I don't know if there's too many employers these days that are paying for all of your health insurance. The whole entire share. There's an employee contribution. Exactly. Right. Exactly. So   yeah. And so what again, what  

[00:58:35] Unknown:

what sparked your My interest in in that,   I don't know, maybe a little bit of jealousy   because I paid in 14% for twenty plus years. And here's somebody else looking at it going like, oh my gosh. They're getting all this, you know, benefit for for not paying into this system. And like I said, I don't begrudge any of those people. It was something that they negotiated, more power to them. If that's something you can negotiate and you get somebody to agree to it, that's great. But, I Well, my whole thing is everybody's playing fair ball, then I can't accuse anybody of not doing it. We then need to look at, well, should we be doing this? Right. You know? Right. So what would your  

[00:59:10] Unknown:

ultimate   fix be for something like that? Is that something you wanna try to fix or or look into? I think at the state level, it ought to be fixed. Yeah.  

[00:59:18] Unknown:

If the pickup plan itself isn't fixed, they ought to at least eliminate the pickup on the pickup, which is where that gets reported as additional income. Yeah.   I think that should not be an option.   Two of the other options are one is it's just a complete wash. The school district picks up the 14%.   They report a $100,000   as the salary under the same scenario we were talking about before, and everybody goes about their business. Yeah. The other option is to   pick up the 14% for the employee,   but that same $100,000   employee, their net income now becomes $86,000   instead of a 100.  



[00:59:52] Unknown:

Well, I mean okay. So you you give me three options. The option of I contribute and   the school district contributes or it's a wash   or I make more money.   I mean, that's not a hard choice. I I don't know why I would even consider the other two options. I wouldn't either. Like that. I wouldn't either. It doesn't make any sense. Right. And I guess that's a good question. Why do the other two options even exist if they're significantly less attractive?  

[01:00:15] Unknown:

I don't know. Maybe the way that the,   the lobbyist   talked to their constituents and  

[01:00:22] Unknown:

congressional representatives when they decided to to get the bill passed? I'm sure there would be something like, well, we've gotta put something in here to make it look  

[01:00:29] Unknown:

better, maybe. I don't know. Make it attractive to people in whatever form of   incentive they wanted  

[01:00:36] Unknown:

to sign up for. So you actually did essentially FOIA requests for all this. Absolutely.   That is wild. Well, congrats. Good on you. I mean, that not a lot of people   have the,   I guess, will to do that, you know, because trust me, I've tried to read   council meeting minutes and   state bills and stuff like that. And, man,   is that stuff   dry?  

[01:00:58] Unknown:

It is, but I think,   maybe the leg up that I had was I was part of that pension system. Sure. And I knew how my money was being taken out and what it took for me to get to the point where I was at.   I was always very involved with, you know, all of those things. Mhmm.   People would come to me at my department and ask me, hey, how do we do this and how do we do that? And I was the guy who did all the research and was always involved in those things. Okay. So you'd already had So I had some understanding of what it meant. Yeah. And then when I read it, I was like, Wait a minute. They're paying for the employee's   portion of the pension? Like Yeah. That's an additional 14% of their pay that they get to take home. The other things are, you know, they're not even   some people in the the district   aren't are being reimbursed for their Medicare tax. That's part of their benefit package. Really? And that's not uncommon either for the superintendent and for a treasurer. They're being reimbursed for their Medicare tax. You know, the thing about this is it sounds like  

[01:01:54] Unknown:

it sounds like, you know, teachers, I'm sure, can negotiate their contracts and can take advantage of the pickup of the pickup plan that you were talking about.   It seems like it's used more to attract   superintendents, administrators, fiscal officers as opposed to teachers. It might yes. And that's I think the original intention was for it to be a superintendent, a treasurer. When I was about to ask because I could see the other side of this argument that,  

[01:02:18] Unknown:

well, if you don't incentivize these people Yes. You're not gonna get the best people. How would you respond to something like that? I think if it was, again, if it was a system where, number one, it couldn't be used as additional reported income for pensionable income,   that would help. But if you limited it to, you know, the superintendent   and the,   the treasurer   and nobody else was, you know, able to take advantage of it. I mean, it would significantly reduce,   the amount of money that the taxpayers are additionally picking up that they really shouldn't be. Yeah.   Listen. No. Go ahead. I know you would ask, you know, how how do you kinda remedy that, and we've kinda got high level. But if you narrowed it down a little bit more Yeah. Come back down to the street level view, I think the only way to   rectify that situation I told you before, and I'll stand by my principles that I don't wanna take money out of people's pockets or food off their tables. The only way to get back to a zero sum game is to   when these administrators   negotiate a three year contract and they're gonna get a three, three, and 3% raise,   then we give you a three, three, and 3% raise, but we pay three, three, and 3% less of your   pickup plan until we get back to zero. Once you're paying the full 14%   or whatever the number is that the state decides Yeah. Then we're back to even, and we're not paying your all your pensionable  

[01:03:35] Unknown:

And I think that that would probably be useful in attracting   new young teachers   because, you know, you'll get them in with, like look. When you start   out, you'll, you know, you'll get a really nice benefit.  

[01:03:45] Unknown:

As you go on, you know, that'll claw back a little bit, but you'll be making more money because you'll have raises and Right. If you get a 3% raise, we pay 3% less of your pension pickup until we're back to zero, and then raises that after that are true raises. Right. And then they pay from there. Yeah. Because it's it's a it's a,   it's a wash for the school district. If I'm already paying out,   a total of $2,000,000   for 50 administrators,   and   I pay a 3% raise in income, but I dropped 3% in pension payments. I'm still paying out $2,000,000 for the administrators. Even though even though it looks like on paper they're getting a raise,   it's not costing the school district any more money because we're reducing Right. A payment on the other end. Right.  



[01:04:24] Unknown:

That seems like an elegant way of fixing it.   So   when you start talking about pensions and retirement funds, I I can't imagine that would make you a very popular person.   Probably not. No. So I was gonna ask,  

[01:04:41] Unknown:

it I'm assuming this is part of your your, like, public platform or or you've talked about this. I have talked about it at a a couple of the school board meetings. Okay. And I'm not sure if many people know about it outside of this  

[01:04:54] Unknown:

conversation that needs to be had. And I think it's more of a state problem than it is a local problem. Yeah. Well, and again, if it's like I said, everybody's playing fair ball. It's not like this is illegal, but Right. It's one of those things that you look at and you're, well, should we really be doing this? Right.  

[01:05:08] Unknown:

Everyone is upset and up in arms about the $300,000,000   less that they're getting   from the the state for the school district. Right. But not about the $300,000,000   more that we're paying in taxes that the taxpayer shouldn't be paying. Right. Right. Right. Right.  

[01:05:23] Unknown:

Wow. You   know what? I love having conversations like this because I I had no idea I was gonna walk into it. I had no idea that this was gonna because I'm what can you say the name of that senate bill again? Because I'll look at that. Bill 69. 69.  

[01:05:35] Unknown:

Okay. Ohio senate bill 69. I believe it's a hundred and thirty six general assembly. Okay. It's either January or January that did it. Okay. It's out there. They haven't voted on yet, but it's in discussion. Okay. I might have to look at these pensions a little bit more. I had no idea that was going on. Yeah.  

[01:05:51] Unknown:

I'm not sure I have with my follow-up question. I wasn't I'm sorry. I wasn't prepared.   I woulda I woulda read up on pensions that I know we were gonna be talking about that.   Well, let's ask this question. What do you think  

[01:06:04] Unknown:

the school district is doing really well? Did I already ask that question? You didn't. Okay. And I I think that they are doing a fantastic job of managing the money that they have   and utilizing it for educational purposes, for improving culture, for improving programs. I think they're doing a fantastic job at it.   The only criticisms I have is   number one, we have a low teacher entry salary. Mhmm. And number two, we have a top heavy   administrative salary. And how do we get those two to Even out. Even out. Yeah. And stay within   that revenue stream that we have. Yeah. Right? Where we've got a finite amount of money,  

[01:06:44] Unknown:

and we have to make everybody happy. Right. And I think it was I really like the way she described this. Deidre Hazelbaker and Loveland. She said, I'm not running against anybody. I'm running force or not force she's running for council. But Yeah. I I met would you agree with that sentiment? Absolutely.  

[01:07:00] Unknown:

Running against them. I'm not running against anyone. I'm running to try to bring fresh ideas and new perspectives in that that I don't think are being   shared or considered in the current,  

[01:07:11] Unknown:

status of the board. So outside of the the pension stuff and and the levies, are there any other ideas or things that that you want to contribute and try to work on? Yeah.  

[01:07:21] Unknown:

I think,   you know, we missed the boat or or   we're   in danger and peril of missing the boat on some of these,   solar tax credits.   I think we've got a lot of space where we could take advantage of these tax incentives to,   build solar systems for these schools. We could power the schools,   if not all of the school, a majority a vast majority of That would just be like rooftop solar. Rooftop solar or even if it was additional space behind the baseball field or a spot that all we're doing is mowing the grass. It's not being used for anything. It might be for future development or or what have you, but   we could take advantage of that stuff right now and start seeing some savings on our utility costs. Yeah.  

Which I imagine are gigantic. I imagine they're gigantic too. I'm not sure exactly what those numbers are, but I mean heat and cool   High school of 2,000 kids. Even if it's not heating and cooling, it just run  

[01:08:16] Unknown:

media and Anything. Lights and Yeah. Cooking and baseball, football. You know, it's something that I don't think a lot of people think about. But, like, whenever you walk into a mall or, like, you just go to jungle gyms or something, you   don't think about it. But you look around, you see all the lights. It's nice and comfy in there. It's got a nice temperature. All the refrigerators. All the refrigerators.   Like, it's a lot of energy that you've got to use. And you got to pay for every single bit of energy that you're using. Yeah. I wish we would would have looked into that,  

[01:08:44] Unknown:

previously because I think the window is closing. I think they're all expiring. I was about to ask if because since the new administration came in, I I don't think  

[01:08:52] Unknown:

because those tax credits, was that part of the Green New Deal stuff? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One of those packages that they put together, and I think they all expire with this new administration Yeah. On January 1. Imagine that they're gonna be You can't start right now and and  

[01:09:06] Unknown:

have a shut breaking ground before the beginning of the year, and I think you have to be breaking ground   before the deadline in order to take advantage of those credits. So I think we missed the boat on that,   which I think could have been a big help. But, I mean, any even if they save a million dollars a year, you know, at at least something to look at, you know. An avenue to pursue. Yeah. So what what other things outside of solar or,  

[01:09:29] Unknown:

levies and I mean, honestly, that pension fund was a pretty big one. It is. And it it is. It's a pretty big one.  

[01:09:35] Unknown:

I think we spend a lot of money,   and I'm not sure why, but we spend an exorbitant amount of money on legal fees every year. We don't have anything   that I'm aware of that is,   a huge  

[01:09:47] Unknown:

Do you know how much they spend on legal fees?  

[01:09:49] Unknown:

Yeah.   In the past five years   give me one second. Sure.  

[01:09:55] Unknown:

Wanna get that number right so you're not Yeah. Right? I don't wanna be giving any false information out here. You get a bunch of people on your Facebook page. Like, I heard you on this podcast.  

[01:10:03] Unknown:

In the last five years, that's including fiscal year twenty five, which isn't over yet. They've spent $1,079,577   on legal fees.  

[01:10:13] Unknown:

What could be the genesis of that? That? Are are they doing because I know if you do, like, intergovernmental agreements   for these the TIF revenue and stuff like that, you probably need lawyers to look at it. But a million I would say probably, but I think just general counsel numbers,  

[01:10:27] Unknown:

are pretty high. They're in the 200,000. Have you compared it to other school districts? Yeah. There we go. And you got you came with receipts. I did. I I compared it to Oak Hills. So if you if you go on to the state of Ohio's, Department of Education website, there's a school district comparison. You can enter your school district in, and you can ask it to tell you what your comparables are in the state.   And Okay.   It's either fourth or fifth on the list is Oak Hills, which is right here in Cincinnati, on the other side of town. Yeah. Well, I've been went to Middletown. We played Oak Hills. Yeah. So they're a comparable district to West Climate. Very close. I think they have   seven middle seven elementary schools, three middle schools, and a high school, or six elementaries, three middle schools, and a high school. I know they're also looking at demographics. So Oak Hills is also demographically very similar to Demographically   income. There's a lot of variables that they Money they get from the state, things like that. That stuff has played into matching up a district,   to get a really good comparison. Yeah. So I did a records request with with them also. And   over the last same time period, this last five years, including twenty '5, which isn't over yet, they've they've spent $352,078.  



[01:11:32] Unknown:

So West Claremont has spent, what'd you say, 1,000,001   million 79.   1,000,079.   And Oak Hills, which is a comparable district,   has spent 302.  

[01:11:41] Unknown:

$352,000.  

[01:11:43] Unknown:

Yep. On.   It'll be interesting to figure out what because   if you're spending that much money in legal fees, my assumption would be   something's happening that you need lawyers for and   that much like, to have that much of a difference, I figured it'd be in some newspaper or something. You would think.  

[01:12:05] Unknown:

I know that they're going through the the same type of struggles that West Clermont is with   Oak Hills that is? Oak Hills. They had a tax levy fail. They've got infrastructure they were trying to rebuild.   They put on a levy, you know, the same as we did.   Contract negotiations are about the same.   I mean, I know that goes up that number that legal fee number goes up a little bit in a contract negotiation here because they're paying for someone to review the documents before they approve them. And I get all that. And they have roughly the same amount of teachers and administrators, everything. Roughly the same. It's literally of of, like, an apples for apples comparison. Yeah. Yeah. It might be Granny Smith to Right. Red Delicious or Golden Delicious, but it's still apples to apples. But it's still apples to apples. Yeah.  

[01:12:47] Unknown:

Man, that   a million dollars in legal fees.  

[01:12:51] Unknown:

Yeah. And that's I mean, if you take Have you asked anybody on the school board, like or or the superintendent? I haven't yet. Okay. I haven't yet. I just got this information in the last couple of days. Okay.  

[01:13:02] Unknown:

I don't know. That's, you know, a good chunk of money over a five year period. Well and especially, it'd be good to know if there's legal trouble happening. Like, if there's something that legally the schools are in trouble with and they need that much legal counsel, it seems like something  

[01:13:15] Unknown:

they should tell people. You would think. Yeah. And I Or they're just grossly overpaying for legal advice. Or are they asking too many questions? I mean, there's a lot of different reasons. Yeah. Who's consulting with this, legal department? Have they been informed on when to consult? I suppose it could be the levy. I I guess  

[01:13:31] Unknown:

it could have been, but the the numbers are pretty pretty much the same each year. Okay. Well, again, I guess Oak Hills, you you said they were trying to pass a levy. They were trying to do the same thing. Okay. Yep. Yep.   That is an interesting mystery. Yeah. They're they're roughly  

[01:13:47] Unknown:

230   to $245,000   a year. Okay.  

[01:13:52] Unknown:

That would be like an average. An average. Okay. Is what we've been spending. And West Claremont?   West Claremont on average Yeah. Is $203,100,000.  

[01:13:59] Unknown:

2 to $2.50, somewhere in that neighborhood. And then it spiked.   No. That if you add the five years together, that's where you get your 1,000,079.  

[01:14:06] Unknown:

Oh, okay. I'm so oh, so Oak Hills over five years only spent 300 Over five years, they were 352,000.  

[01:14:12] Unknown:

Oh, I'm sorry. I understand. Contract negotiation year. They spent a 144.   The other years are right around 50 to $45,000.  

[01:14:20] Unknown:

Oh, that's a that's kind of a horse of a different color. I thought that was per year they were spending that. Over the five year period, Oak Hill spent $352,000,  

[01:14:28] Unknown:

and we spend almost that in one one year.   Wow. Yeah.  

[01:14:34] Unknown:

Wow.   So I don't I don't know. And, you know Sorry. That that was that's kind of shocking to hear. I I don't I don't know what I'm racking my brain trying to think of why   why you would need that much legal counsel   as opposed to Oak Hills. I don't know. I'm not sure.  

[01:14:52] Unknown:

Well, if you get on school board, you have to come back on and tell us. I will. I will. I will be glad to. That's part of the transparency that we need. Yeah. We need to know the answers to these questions.  

[01:15:00] Unknown:

So outside all these   crazy bombshells with receipts that you're dropping on me,   what what else do you think,   could be fixed or could could be done better?   I mean, those are some pretty big things. Don't get me wrong. And if there's nothing else, that's fine. There are some tweaks, I think, within,  

[01:15:20] Unknown:

some contracts that you could work on to, you know,   improve maybe   over time that that is being spent, you know, sick time usage.   I don't know. There's lots of areas to look at that you need to analyze and figure out is there anything that you can do about these situations. Yeah.   But without having all that information, I do have all of the contracts and I've done records request for all of those things. And I've looked over a significant significant portion of them, and I have some ideas. Yeah. But,   you know, those are all things that I I don't want to   spit those ideas out without going to the horse's mouth and asking the teachers like, well, if we did this Right. What would that do to other things for you, for your life, for your daily routine, for,   your personal lives. Like, we have to find out what the again, what is the opportunity cost of making this decision? What's gonna happen if we do this? Right? Before we make a radical decision and just do it just to be doing it. Right? If there's no benefit, then there's no reason to change things. Well, Well, it's nice to hear that too because you hear those numbers and you look at a very high level.  



[01:16:25] Unknown:

And, you know, it's easy to look at a spreadsheet and start redlining things,   but those red lines are people. Like, that affects people, that affects students,  

[01:16:35] Unknown:

affects everything. It affects taxpayers. It affects homeownership. It affects whether people can put food on their tables   on either end of that, either the taxpayer or the the employee. Yeah. I mean, they all of those things have an an effect on someone, and we need to be able to consider all of those things and make a decision that's correct in the best interest of, number one, the student Mhmm.   And number two, the long term, viability of the district.   Sustainability, I think, is my number one goal is to In terms of, like, having a sustainable school district. Have a sustainable school district. Not like solar panels and stuff. Like solar panels. Correct. But so that when I decide to leave after I get elected,   hopefully, if I do get elected, that it's better in better shape than when I got here. Yeah. I want it to be more sustainable where we don't have to have this model of,   well, you know, we need another property income tax levy. Let's put on another level. Let's have it fail for ten years, and then we get it approved at the last minute and then cost out drive revenues and all of those things that is just the wash, rinse, repeat model over and over and over again. I want something that's   more sustainable.  



[01:17:44] Unknown:

So how do you think the schools got themselves   in this position over the years?  

[01:17:51] Unknown:

I think it's one of those things where,   if all you have is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail. Yeah.   Yeah. If you don't know what you don't know, if you don't know to that there are other opportunities available, if you haven't ever looked for other opportunities and you're just basing your   strategical decisions off of the information that you're being fed from the people that it affects Mhmm.   From   the the school district. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. That sounds great. But did you consider other options? Did you ask other people in need? Did you look at other schools? Are there consultants that we can reach out to? Did you ask somebody else in the same position from a different different district? Yeah.   Did you read a a document on what is the industry standard? What's the best practice within the industry? Yeah. If you don't do those things, then you're gonna get stuck into a cycle of,   well, they said they needed it. Let's approve it. We're doing what we think is good for the community. And and I truly believe that all the previous boards were doing what they felt like was in the best interest of Yeah. The school district, the students, all that. I think that's a really important point actually to  

[01:18:54] Unknown:

to,   you know, you talk about all, you know, the pensions and and lawyer fees and things like that.   I really truly believe that most people in elected positions, I mean, they're your neighbors, and they've raised their hand to do a thankless job for little to no money. Yeah. So I think that alone,  

[01:19:10] Unknown:

you should give people respect for that. Absolutely. I I don't think that there's been anything nefarious Right. Exactly. Was done. That was kind of my No one had an intention to drive the school into a position where we're in right now.   I just think that, again, the whole world is a hammer. All you have is a hammer. The whole world looks like a nail. Well, and, you know, the thing about  

[01:19:32] Unknown:

government and school districts and things like that is   you can make it.   There could have been a decision made fifteen years ago   that fifteen years ago looked really good. And and it did a great job for the district, but then things change. You know, economies change, demographics   change,   all kinds of things change. Yeah. There's way too many variables. Exactly. Like, there's there's no way   to predict.   I mean, there's you can run all the, you know, models you want and things like that. But really, it's very, very difficult to predict how your the ramifications your decisions will have fifteen, twenty years down the road. Yep. So and, again, that's all to say that nobody's blaming anybody for it. It's just it's a problem that it needs fixed. But I think one of the keys to  

[01:20:15] Unknown:

success   is constant evaluation and feedback.   I mean, any change model that you look at in the business world. Right? Yeah. It it all   revolves around, you know, plan, do, check, act. That's the big acronym now. Right? If we're not checking and acting on those things that we find out in our feedback and making adjustments as time goes goes on, our sustainability, our long term business objectives,   they're they don't matter Right. Because we're not evolving as things evolve. And I think that's what we haven't done as we haven't evolved with the times. Yeah. That's fair enough.  

[01:20:47] Unknown:

So,   let's talk about well, let's talk about you just as a person. What do you besides your work, what do you like to do?  

[01:20:55] Unknown:

Well,   we spend a lot of time at home doing backyard barbecues and grill outs. We have a swimming pool. What kind of barbecue do you have? We have a we have a Blackstone, and I really like it. I've got a Blackstone. Do you also have a Green Mountain Grill smoker? Oh, like one of those eggs? Is that what Yeah. No. It's it's more of a pellet smoker. Okay. I've never smoked. I'm not I never got into smoke. Yeah. I I never wanted to be up at 03:00 in the morning, making sure my pork butt was being being smoked appropriately. There's a little nuance to all of it. Yeah. Like, some of that does involve some early mornings and late nights. Yeah. Yeah.  

[01:21:26] Unknown:

I like barbecue as mud and smoke meat as much as the next guy, but I'm not losing sleep over it. Yeah. So what are the kind of things do you like to obviously, you got kids. What what do your kids do?  

[01:21:36] Unknown:

Well, we we do a lot of sports.   We got a granddaughter that plays volleyball.  

[01:21:40] Unknown:

She plays basketball. All the kids have played a sport. We do it with all the kids. Go to West Claremont? Grand  

[01:21:46] Unknown:

granddaughter goes   to, Clough Pike. Okay. Yep. And she's in fifth grade, so she'll be at the middle school next year.   I'm involved a lot with,   the the park,   committee at the township, with the athletic boosters, which I've stepped away from the focus on the campaign. Sure.   But, yeah, I mean, I I stay involved with the community, and   the kids go fishing. We like to go hunting. We like to do outdoorsy things. We do kayaking and all that stuff. Do you deer hunt? Deer hunt. How'd you do last year?   I kinda got skunked last year, but the kids did good and that was good. That was okay. I got skunked. But we get an opportunity to, to avenge ourselves now in a couple of weeks since Yeah. Opening day shows up soon. And right in November, it's coming up. I gotta get my rifle cleaned.  

[01:22:29] Unknown:

Last year, I'd I've I was lucky enough to have a friend this year that let me,   go on to he's a farmer, and he let me go on his land. Nice. And it was so cold.   I mean, it was just so cold. I was up in the stand, and I was like, my fingers were hurting. My toes were hurting. Everything was terrible. It was about lunchtime. I'm like, I'm gonna go get some lunch. So I come down out of my stand. I go get some Burger King. I come back.   And as I'm getting up my stand, I hear a rustling. I look over, and I just see that white tail flash in the air, and the guy's gone.   My god, man. If I'd have just sat here Yeah. If I'd have just muscled through it Yep. I'd have got myself a deer. Yep. Hunger got you, didn't it? It did. The hunger and the cold, and I was like, oh, this is awful. I'm out of here. I'm gonna go sit in the car and eat eat all deflated. Yeah. Ego shot. And it was I think it was probably day three or four of the season too, and I just seen nothing. Yeah. Nothing the whole time.  



[01:23:21] Unknown:

That's why they call it hunting. Yeah. Not killing. Not killing. Yeah. Yeah.  

[01:23:25] Unknown:

Yeah. And you fish too? I never got into fishing. I've I've don't understand fishing. Yeah. Fortunately, my employer has, a couple of locations that they allow employees to go and fish. Nice. Yeah. It's really nice.   So what,   what's it actually like running for local office? Because I feel like it's one of those things that you don't really know what it's like until you start doing it. I mean, this is all pretty new to me, being out in the the public like this and having your name out there and,  

[01:23:51] Unknown:

you know, having people   Google my my name and people sending me texts like, what do you think about this? Or what do you think about that? And look what we found on you and look what this person has and that person has. And   I don't I don't necessarily   like that portion of it, but I'm willing to endure it because I think it's worth doing. Yeah.  

[01:24:10] Unknown:

Alright. Well,   I'll be honest. I don't think I have any more questions for you.   But I do wanna give you the last word to just give you a pitch for why you should be on school board. Well, I think,  

[01:24:21] Unknown:

you know, I'm an outsider. I'm not from this area. I'm not a politician.   I don't have any gigantic backing.   I'm pretty much doing this whole campaign on my own. I'm in it for the right reasons to make a difference.   I'm not here to place blame or make people look bad or take anything away from anybody. I'm actually trying to make things, you know, more positive and,   you know, hopefully a better future for the the school district and the students in our schools. Awesome. Well, like I said, I'm out of questions. So I'm not Awesome.   Well, like I said, I'm out of questions. So I'm like one last question for you. Oh, perfect. Skyline or Gold Star? Oh, Skyline. Are you kidding me? Alright. We're friends then. That's not a question.  



[01:24:59] Unknown:

I thought it was gonna be some kind of like hard hitting, like No. What do you think about this? I'm like, no, man. Skyline. Skyline. What do you what do you take me for?  

[01:25:08] Unknown:

Hopefully, not a gold star. Yeah.  

[01:25:11] Unknown:

Much like fishing, I don't understand gold star. Well,   I'm sure we have gold star people in the audience. And if you like that, it's fine, but you're wrong.   So   Fair enough. Fair enough. Rich, thank you very much for doing this. Thank you, Patrick. And I'm gonna call it a successful podcast. I appreciate it. Thank you.   Well, thanks again to Rich. And like I said in the beginning, we're gonna wish him the best of luck come November.   And win or lose, I think I'll probably bug him again. Come on. Talk more about pensions,   because I thought it was pretty wild if you ask me.  

But thank you, Rich.   And let's talk about some events.   First up, we have the fall color family bike night. This is October 10 from six to 7PM.   The Williamsburg Batavia Trail.   It's a casual scenic bike ride to enjoy peak autumn foliage.   Riders of all ages meet on the multi use trail. The route is to be determined,   and you'll pedal together for about an hour.   Bring your own bike or scooter and helmet.   Next, we have Union Township's military tribute, October,   from 8AM to 3PM at the Veterans Memorial Park. This is a multi day tribute honoring US military service members and veterans,   featuring the American Veterans Traveling Tribute exhibits,   which includes an 80% scale Vietnam   War Memorial.  

The memorial displays are open to the public each day.   There are special ceremonies and activities taking place throughout the event,   as the community honors the brave men and women who served.   Batavia's farmers Batavia Farmers Market, October   from 9AM to 2PM. This is gonna be the on the corner of Main Street and Depot Street in Batavia.   It's a seasonal open air market featuring local farmers and artisans.   There'll be fresh produce, farm raised meats, baked goods, honey, plants,   and handmade crafts.   It is family friendly and free to attend   and a great way to support local vendors and enjoy a Saturday morning in downtown Batavia.  

Composting one zero one workshop, October 11, 10AM to 11AM at Clingman Park.   This is a free outdoor workshop on home composting.   You'll have a guided tour of the park's compost site and learn methods from backyard bins to indoor composting,   which   which could get interesting, I bet.   You also get tips on how to start composting at home.   Next up, we have Heritage Crafts, fall stained glass, October 11   from 12PM   to 2PM. That's the first session.   And three to 5PM.   That'll be the second session. And this is at Clingman Park. It is a hands on stained glass making,   session with an instructor   from the glass garden club.  

You will foil and solder your own fall themed glass mushrooms.   Preregistration   is required, and there are limited spots. And,   frankly, that sounds pretty cool. So if you're interested,   I would sign up for that as quickly as possible   and hope that there's still spots available.   Next up, we have Cincinnati Nature Center Heritage Walk architecture and landscape tour. Is on October 12 from 2PM to 04:30PM   at Cincinnati   Nature Center's Row Woods.   It is a docent led walking tour exploring the two historical estates on the nature center grounds, the Krippendorf Lodge and Grosbeck House.   Both of those are early nineteen hundreds homes and are on the National   Register of Historic Places.  

It's a two and a half hour tour for adults and it goes into the architecture, horticulture, and landscape design   of the Estates.   Birding to Change the World, conservation talk and book discussion on October 15   from 7PM to 08:30PM at the Cincinnati Nature Center.   It is an evening conversation on community based conservation,   conversation on conservation. I kinda like that. It features Trish O'Kane, author of Birding to Change the World, a memoir,   in discussion with Connie O'Connor,   the Nature Center's director of applied learning. It's aimed at adults, and the program explores how connecting people through shared interests like birding   can drive grassroot environmental activism   and foster conservation   civics.  

Next up is a community costume swap, October 16 at 5PM,   Sycamore Park. Give a costume, get a costume.   This free community swap invites families to bring gently used Halloween costumes and exchange them for something frightfully fresh.   All ages from little monsters to grown up ghouls are welcome.   It's a great way to refresh your costume without scaring your budget.   I think that's just a really nice piece of Halloween copy.   Homeschool Discovery Days, fall leaves on October 17 from 1PM to 2PM at the Catherine Stagmore Park. It is an educational nature program tailored for homeschoolers, but it's open to all families.   Kids will learn about the science behind autumn leaves, like why they change color and how trees prepare for winter through hands on activities and games. It's held outdoors in the park. It's an hour long program, and it combines science and fun to explore the fall season.  

Mission is free, but please register in advance, and I imagine you could do that on the park's website.   Yoga in the park, October 18, 9AM, Sycamore Park. Start your Saturday with a calming morning yoga session in nature.   This free class, no registration needed, is open to adults and teens of all skill levels. An instructor will lead gentle poses and breathing exercises on the lawn at Sycamore Park with the backdrop of trees in the East Fork River. Beginners can learn the basics while experienced yogis enjoy practicing   in a serene outdoor setting. Be sure to bring a yoga mat or towel and sessions typically last about an hour.  

BooFest.   Claremont County YMCA Halloween Festival, October 18 from 12PM to 2PM at the Claremont Family YMCA.   It is a free community Halloween party hosted by the y.   Families are encouraged to come in costume and enjoy trunk or treating, music from a DJ,   games, kids dance activities,   and snacks in the YMCA's   West parking lot. There's even a costume parade for youngsters and prizes awarded to the best decorated car trunks.   It's open to the entire community,   and you do not need to be a Y member to join the fun.   So those are all the events, and I'll wrap it up with another quick notes about events. I'd like I said before, I do my best to find as many as I can, but there are a lot of them, and they're all over the Internet on lots of different websites. So I know I don't get them all.  

If you have an event or there's something you'd like people to know about, just send me an email. I'm not gonna promise I am gonna read off all of them because   I'm sure there's some wacky events out there that probably aren't appropriate to be read off on a podcast like this. But,   please let me know, and, I will do my level best to read it off here with all the other events.   And that brings us to our last pitch for we are a value for value model or podcast. I'm sorry. We are a value for value podcast. And what that means   is if you find value in what we're doing, all we ask is for a little value in return in the form of time, talent, or treasure.  

For time and talent, get in touch. Let us know what's going on in your community and who you want us to talk to. We wanna talk about the things you wanna hear about, and we wanna talk to the people that you want to hear from.   For treasure, go to the website, www.let'stalkclaremont.com.   Hit the donations tab, and you can donate via PayPal or Stripe. And with PayPal, you can set up reoccurring donations, which would be awesome. And any dollar amount is greatly appreciated. But for producers   that donate $50 and above, I will give you a special mention on the show. For producers that donate $200 and above, you will get an executive producer credit for the show that I will vouch for. And I'll read a note   live on air. Well, not live, but I'll read a note. And it can be anything. It can be what's going on with you. It can be an ad read for your business, or it can be that nasty gram that I'm just hoping to get and just give a really good dramatic reading.  

So please,   please donate.   And connect with us on Facebook, Let's Talk Claremont podcast. We're also on Instagram at Let's Talk Claremont, and we've got the newsletter, ma'am. Go sign up for it.   Go to the website. Hit that newsletter tab. Put your email in, and we're all gonna send you one email a week to let you know when a show is out. And sometimes there's fun stuff in there. So I think it's a fun newsletter, and other people do,   too because they've signed up for it. So   and, of course, follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or whatever it is you use for podcast helps the show and it helps you. You'll get notified anytime a new show goes live.   And as always, if you just wanna say hi or whatever it is you wanna talk about, info at let'stalkclaremont.com.  

That is all I've got for you today. I really appreciate you listening to this show. I appreciate all those producers,   that have donated.   That's really awesome. Really gave me a nice boost.   But that's all I've got for for you today, and I hope to see you next week.