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Episode 34 — Batavia’s Growth & CRAs, and a Village Council Candidate

We open with a quick local news rundown:

• Loveland’s new Otto Huber Fire Station: ~$5.4M via USDA Community Facility Loan, 10k+ sq ft with pull-through bays and full living/training space.
• Eastgate’s big health update: Cincinnati Children’s opens Nov 3 at 4315 Ivy Pointe—111k sq ft, ~600 patients/day, 250 staff, and expanded specialty/urgent care close to home.
• New Richmond: Oct 28 village-council candidate meet-and-greet, plus a brief update on the mystery odor (crews say an issue was found; fix in progress).

Then, an interview with Michael Kinner, candidate for Batavia Village Council. We talk about:

• His background: five generations in Batavia, former village zoning administrator, civil-engineering/development work, and a career in insurance
• Growth, density, annexation, and where to put the rooftops are supposed to attract
• CRAs/abatements: why he opposes using them for residential builds, when he’d support incentives (job-creating reuse), and who pays for services under abatements
• “Blight” designations, PILOTs, Streamside, and what transparency around village finances should look like
• Main Street revival: incubators, cottage industries, and reusing existing buildings instead of chasing big-box dreams
• Property rights, rural character, and practical ways to engage residents beyond a packed hearing night
• Batavia’s “closed for business” reputation—and how to flip the script

Tips, guests, or events? info@letstalkclaremont.com

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[00:00:11] Unknown:

We've been living in sin so long.   All   Welcome to episode 34 of Let's Talk Clermont. I am your host, Patrick, and I'm happy to be here. I'm happy you're here listening. Thank you for tuning in. I've talked a lot about how much I love fall, but it's it oh, man. It's just nice and crisp out there. We did some pumpkin carving last night. My daughter, Olive, carved the most terrifying pumpkin I've ever seen. It looks like a crazy person did it.   It still has a knife stuck in it, which she said is a feature.   So that's not too terrifying.  

We also and   this this goes to kinda spicing up the newsletter,   which shameless plug. Please sign up for that.   My wife, Katie, made an absolutely delicious kind of hot spiked apple cider.   It was it was really good.   If I can find out how she made that because the way she cooks and makes things is kind of a lot of feeling goes into it. Like, she just kinda feels what she's feeling and throws in spices and   comes up with, most times, delicious things.   So if I can get that recipe out of her, I'll put that in the newsletter so you can enjoy that this fall because there's nothing better in a crisp fall day than some hot cider with, you know, maybe just a little bit of booze in it.   So if you are new here, because we've been drawing in a lot of people from these candidate interviews and interviews about levies and things like that,   This is a normal Thursday episode, and how our normal episodes run is we go over a little bit of the news, then we'll get into our interview, and then we will wrap things up with some events that are going on around the county that you may be interested in attending.  

So let's get into the news. We're gonna start with Loveland. They have a new fire station, and it's gonna be long named after   long time Loveland Sims fire department chief, Otto Huber, which is a side note. I feel like Otto Huber is a great name for a firefighter.   That's a really cool name. You don't see Otto very much.   Anyway, the project   cost 5,400,000.0   and was financed through the USDA Community Facility Loan Program, which the city is projecting to save $1,000,000   across the life of the loan. It's It's gonna be over 10,000 square feet. It's gonna have two pull through apparatus bays plus one bay in the back with entries from O'Bannon Avenue and East Loveland Avenue. It'll also have training rooms, full living quarters, offices,   and ample EMS and fire equipment storage. So good news for Loveland.  

Next in Eastgate, Cincinnati Children's is opening a new medical center at 4315   Ivy Point Boulevard,   and there will be a ribbon cutting ahead of its full opening on November 3.   The site combines specialty clinics, outpatient surgery, and urgent care. It'll be the first Cincinnati children's location on the East Side to offer that particular mix.   The new center will expand access for families in Clermont County along the Ohio 32 Corridor and parts of Northern Kentucky and West Virginia.   They're expecting around 600 patients a day supported by around 250 team members. Those are gonna be things like physicians, nurses, support staff, health specialists, things like that.   The whole project costs $90,000,000.  

It's on a 20 acre property, and it's a two story building. It's going to be 111,000   square feet, but it's only gonna occupy 10 acres currently, 10 of those 20 acres, because they're gonna leave five acres reserved for future expansion.   On-site services include sports medicine and physical therapy,   speech language pathology,   audiology and ophthalmology,   behavioral health, occupational therapy, nutrition,   MRI, and radiology. They'll have a lab   and child life and integrative care. There'll also be some outpatient surgery and ENT.   Urology.  

I think that's how you pronounce that. It's u r o l o g y. I don't think I've ever seen that word,   so I don't know how to pronounce it. Gynecology,   GI, and pediatric surgery. So good news for all of us, really, especially if you have kids. It'll be nice to have something,   if you got a sick kid, take them a little closer to home.   And last, we have New Richmond.   There will be a meet and greet with candidates for New Richmond Village Council on October 28   from 06:30 to 07:30PM   at the New Richmond Preparatory Academy Gymnasium.   So if you wanna meet some candidates, head on out there.  

Also from New Richmond, we have an update on the funky smell people were complaining about.   Village's crews have located an issue, and they're working towards a resolution. No other information than that, but I think we're all hoping that things get to smell them better soon down in New Richmond.   So that is all we have for the news, which will bring us to thanking very much all of our producers that came that donated under $50, and that is for reasons of anonymity.   And if you are new here, this is when we talk about value for value.   My wife, Katie, who's featuring very prominently in this intro today,   told me the other day that, this value for value segment's getting a little stale, and it sounds like I'm I'm reading it, which   is kinda funny because it's probably the only segment I don't read. I have a list of notes to make sure I'm, you know, giving you good information   when it comes to the news. So I thought we'd talk just a little bit about why   why value for value and and what I'm trying to do here.  

You know, this takes a lot of time to put this podcast together, and it's either at night or I'm shuffle my actual work schedule around because I I freelance, so I have a lot of freedom with the things I do and when I do them.   But it it's a lot of work. It really is a lot of work.   And, you know, I could go out and I could find the advertisers or investors or or somebody to to back me monetarily.   But then, you know, I'm kinda beholden to them.   And,   you know, you might have to not talk about something or you might have to talk about something   because they're paying you. And I don't really wanna get in that situation. It also forces you to look at metrics like,   you know, how many times people download the episode or, you know, what's your reach and things like that. And I don't really like those metrics. I prefer to focus on   listener or producer because if you're listening to this, you are a producer of the show.  

Listener   slash producer engagement.   I want you to engage with the show. Yeah. I've said a lot of times, you know, what's going on in your community? Let me know. Who do you wanna hear from? Let me know, And we'll talk about those things, and we'll try to get those people on.   I really I really do want all of our producers to be engaged,   because I think that is the best metric for success, and it lets me focus on   you,   the audience. It lets me focus on on, you know, what you wanna hear about, and I think that's important.   Because, you know, frankly, you don't wanna hear about what some advertiser wants me to talk about or what I wanna talk about, really. So that's why we do value for value and how value for value works.  

If you find value in what we're doing, we just ask for a little value in return. And that can be in the form of time, talent, or treasure.   For time and talent, I've said it a lot. Let me know what's going on in your community.   Let me know who you'd like us to talk to, and we'll make both of those things happen if we can.   I also wanna mention   most everybody is an expert in something. So So if you're listening to this and we're talking about a topic that you're an expert in, please write in. I'd love to hear your take on it. You know, I'd like to think I'm a pretty smart fellow, but I don't know everything.   And if you do know, have a very specific set of knowledge and you wanna   explain something or, you know, tell us about something that we're talking about right in. We would love to hear from you. And I've also been asking that question a lot. What's the character of our county or your township or your village or whatever that is? We're dealing with a lot of development pressure here in in Clermont.  

And I see in zoning documents a lot. We even talked to to Michael Kinner in the episode   about, you know, what he thinks the character of the county is. But   if we don't understand what we're trying to preserve in the face of all this development pressure, it's gonna be very hard to preserve it. I don't know if I have a good answer to the question, but I think together, maybe we can come up with a good answer to that question. And then once we know what we want our our county or our village or our township to look like, we can all point ourselves in that direction and make it happen,   Because there's very, very little that we can't do. You know? If we all wanna do something, we can do it.  

So please write in. Let me know what you think.   And if you are interested in this, I would love to have some kind of high school sports rundown. I myself have a big soft spot for high school football. I played in high school. Love it. I think it's it's just a a great sport, especially at the high school level,   or any and any sport, really. If you if you follow high school sports or you know a lot about high school sports,   write in or get in touch. I'd love to do a rundown.   You can record yourself. You can, you know, do a write up, whatever it is. Get in touch, and we'll figure out how to make that happen.   As for treasure,   go to the website. Click donate.  

Website's www.let's   talk clairemont.com,   and you can donate via PayPal or Stripe.   If you wanna donate a different way, get in touch. We'll make that happen, obviously. But PayPal and Stripe are the easiest ways to do it, and they take most forms of payment.   PayPal will also let you do reoccurring donations.   So if the shows were worth a buck a month, $5 a month, whatever the case may be, that would be really helpful. Reoccurring donations will really help   sustain the show, and it will help me keep doing this, frankly. Because like I said, this takes a lot of time out of my day, to do these, especially during this election season. So   and any dollar amount is absolutely appreciated.  

Thank everybody who donates to the show.   It it really does help.   But   for donations 50 and above, you'll get a special mention on the show. We had one last,   I guess, would be yesterday or the day, but my days are running together. It was doctor Scarf who, probably hates that I call her doctor Scarf.   But you'll get a special mention.   For donations 200 and above, you will get an executive producer credit.   And that's a that's a real credit. It'll be a credit for that show. You can put it on your resume if you want. I will vouch for it. And really what you know, you watch television, you see, you know, produced by producers, whatever on the credits.   A lot of times, that's what a producer is. They're just the money men. They back whatever the production is, and then, you know, directors and everything take over. So that's kind of the idea. It's a real credit.  

And   I'll read a note that you that you write in, and the note can be anything.   I still would love to give a dramatic reading to a Nastygram.   It does you doesn't even have to be, you know, a serious Nastygram. I just love to read it.   But it can be anything else. It can be an ad read for your business and just let us know what's going on in your life. Whatever the case may be, I will read it within reason, of course. I'm not gonna read some sort of crazy hate filled manifesto or something like that. Within reason, I will absolutely read whatever it is you want to talk about.   And a quick note, if you do decide to donate above $50, please email info@let'stalkclermont.com   with your name and donation amount so I can match that up on the back end.  

If you don't do that, I will know who you are, and I will not be able to mention you on the show or tie your note to your to your donation. So please please please do that if you decide to donate above $50.   And please connect with us. We have a Facebook page, Let's Talk Clermont podcast. We're on Instagram   at Let's Talk Clermont. And we got the newsletter. Like I've been saying after the election and and when things calm down a little bit, I'm gonna kinda try to focus on that a little bit more and make it, make it more interesting. Put some things in there like Katie's,   spiked cider, hot cider recipe, things like that. So we're gonna have some fun with it. So sign up for it, and we're only gonna email you once.  

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We've been talking about it a lot, but we are still on that accelerated,   posting schedule. Next week will be   the last full week before the election, I believe, and we've got two for sure,   interviews that will come out next week. I'm not sure about a third. We'll see if that comes. I don't wanna   talk too much about it because I haven't, you know, nailed it down. So   there may be three next week. But sign up for the newsletter, and you'll know. Or follow us on on Instagram or Facebook, and you'll know. So   so very soon, we will be going back to reg regularly scheduled programming. It'll come out every Thursday. You'll get your newsletter on Thursday, and we're gonna be talking to a bunch of different people. We're we're gonna try to stay in touch with,   elected officials, especially if anybody we we've talked to gets elected. We're definitely gonna wanna follow-up with them and see, you know,   if   serving on the village council or township trustee or school board or whatever it is, if it's all it's cracked up to be, what they're working on, and stuff like that. So,   we're definitely gonna do that. But, we've got other episodes that are and I apologize to anybody I've I have   interviewed before all this election madness started. I promise your interviews are coming out after the fourth. And we've got some good ones. We've got Steve Newman, the Worldwalker,   Goshen Grind.  

We talked to, Sons of Toil, the brewery, which I know isn't in Clermont, but it's close enough.   You know, close enough for hand grade hand grenades and horseshoes.   But we've got some really good stuff. So if the candidate interviews have have brought you into this to Let's Talk Clermont, I really hope you'll stick around for after the election,   because we're gonna be talking to some really interesting people.   And next Thursday,   we are going to wrap everything up with an, ballot rundown. So next Thursday, I'll go over through I'll go over all the things on the ballot that we're gonna be voting for, you know, at the county level, at the township level, at the village level, all those stuff, all that   stuff. I'm never gonna tell you how to vote, because I don't think that's my job, but we'll definitely talk about what's gonna be on there and what it means if you vote for or against it.  

And then that'll wrap up the election season.   Oh, alright. So for today, we are talking with Michael Kinner. He is a candidate for Batavia Village Council. We talk about a lot of different stuff. We talk about why he's running, obviously. Get into his background a little bit. Sounds sounds like he's been in the village for quite some time, and he's we worked in zoning,   in the eighties and nineties.   As you might suspect, we talk about development. We get into the whole CRA thing.   Talk about transparency and better township village relations, which has been a kind of a common theme.   Actually, I guess he's the only village council candidate that I've interviewed. But with the trustees,   towns with township trustees, that's been a a very big issue.  

He talks about his economic development,   vision and,   all kinds of stuff. I really enjoyed the inter interview,   and I I hope you enjoy it too.   Also, as a quick note,   Mike mentioned some names of businesses and business owners in the interview, and he he asked that I cut those from the interview, and I thought that was a reasonable request. I don't think it took anything away from what he was talking about.   It certainly isn't to try to make him look better or hide anything.   I chose to do that because I respect people's anonymity,   especially when we're talking about issues that have divided the community.  

And I really don't wanna drag people into that conversation against their will or unknowingly.   So if you hear, like, an odd cut in the in the episode,   that's what that is. And like I said, I thought that was completely fair.   There's also a spot where I stopped recording.   We need to take a restroom break, and I'm not gonna   I'm not gonna force somebody to sit in a chair when they need to go pee. So,   and, you know, honestly, you'll just have to trust me on that one.   Alright. That is all I've got for you, and I really hope you enjoy this interview.   We'll start this as I've started all of mine,   podcasts. Why don't you just tell us who you are and what you are doing? I'm Michael Kinner, and I'm a candidate for village council in the village of Batavia. Nice. So I think the first obvious question is why are you running?  



[00:17:05] Unknown:

I'm running because I wanna make a difference in my community. Okay. That's not a that's that's not a prewritten scripted speech line. That's a fact. It's Yeah.   And I never realized   quite as much until here recently   how how much of a Batavia person I am and and how much my community means to me is that I had there was a person put out the,   I I officially became a true politician Yeah. This week.   A slander letter came You got a nasty gram. Got a nasty gram was put out by You've arrived. I have arrived.   It it you know, there's a, like, 1% of of fact in it Yeah. And the rest of it's not, and that's okay. But I I wanted to put it out to I didn't know who got it, where it went, and so I wanted to put it out there and say, hey. Look at this. And   I had a very good friend that I've known for over thirty years. That's what she says in in the comment on Facebook post.  

And she says, you have always   been a proponent of your community. Yeah.   So that's that's a big reason. Yeah. I'm I'm a proponent of Batavia.   Definitions between   the the what defines the line between village and township   is is something that's on paper to me. Mhmm.   I I grew up, graduated from Batavia High School in 1982,   had friends that grew up back here on Clark Street or up on Shelley Drive.   Maybe they lived, out in Olive Branch Mhmm. Out there.   That's still Batavia. Yeah. We're all part of the same community. It's it's for the most part, when you're in Batavia Township, you're definitely in Batavia Village. It lies in the center of the community,   center of the township. And   Batavia's local school district is the majority of Batavia Township. Yeah. There's a little bit of it that's West Clermont, a little bit of it's Clermont Northeastern,   but we're all Batavia. Mhmm. And   what I've seen over the years   has been a degradation   of not just community, and that's a societal thing to me.  

Our society's changed so much over many years and for lots of different reasons. One thing that I look at is we're we're so transient. Mhmm. You'll have people move in and live in a house for four or five years. Maybe they'll they'll go as long as ten and and raise their kids through a whole whole school cycle,   and then they'll move. Yeah. You know, this is a generational home. Yeah.   My children are the fifth generation to be raised in this house.   That's an anomaly   in today's society. Yeah. But that's the foundation of a community. You know? The the people that live there and not not that being a long term resident makes me any more special than somebody that just moves in next door because I'm I'm not. I'm just I'm just another person.   But,   the the whole sense of community,   it it's I think it's a word that's tossed around,   and and just used to to to fit a need whenever it's need. But but the true meaning of it and and it has been gone for a while, and I'd like to see us be able to bring that back.  

It it really it really tore my heart to sit up there in the council chambers and and see hundreds of my neighbors   be called outsiders.   Mhmm. There there are no outsiders. We're all Batavians.  

[00:20:29] Unknown:

Yeah. So when you say   community   and, you know, I've looked into zoning things and talked to a few different politicians and stuff like that.   Idea of the character of our township or the character of our village,   character of the county,   that comes up a lot. And I've been thinking about what would you say is the character of the village? Like, what what is that defining thing?  

[00:20:51] Unknown:

You mean other than me? Other than you. A lot of people call me a character.   They they Other than you. And and, yeah, and that's fine. People, you know, people don't understand, and then they look and, well, he's crazy.   But,   it's it's   it's a lifestyle, I guess, or something like that. But   the   character to me,   community is it it's ever evolving. Mhmm. It's it's not something that that   you just can't point at one one issue or one item and say, okay. That's that's what makes it.   And Batavia, like I said, those   it's changed over the years   with with people changing, people coming and going.  

A big thing about the village of Batavia   is   you talk to to local residents, you know, those that have been here a while, those that just moved in.   They like quiet streets.   They they they don't want a a a lot of commercial development   and a lot of excitement and things going on.   You know, they they want a community where they can they can walk the streets. They're they can   visit with their neighbors. They can spend time   doing the things that they wanna do without being bothered by outside influences.  

[00:22:05] Unknown:

Yeah.   So   what would   you say what would you say the village is doing well, and what would you say it's doing not so well? And I guess that's that's a question aimed at, like, what what are you really trying to accomplish?   Should you be elected?  

[00:22:22] Unknown:

That's that's a tough   both sides of that are tough. I mean, the the not so well, I think, for a lot of people is an easy easy grab. I I mean, I've been on Facebook. Yeah.   You can you can hit on that not so well, and and that that's a matter of opinion too. I mean,   the the not so well things, a lot of people apparently look at it and think they're doing well. I I don't know.   I I don't know that they're doing anything that's intentional   as far as doing well. I mean, you you can I hear people comment about the the street department? You know, one of the benefits we have down here is in in the in the summer,   every the first Monday of the month, they'll pick up your brush. Mhmm. And starting in the fall, when the leaves fall, you pile them, and they'll come pick up your leaves. You know, those those kinds of things, they they they're doing well. Mhmm.  

It's it's really hard to look at anything else and and   and say it's really being done well.   I hear lots of compliments about our police department. Mhmm. You know?   I presume they're doing well. I haven't had any issues. That's probably a good No no one breaking in or, you know, that type of thing. So so I guess they're doing a doing a good job. Yeah.   And I and I hope I don't have any issues. But,   really,   I I think a lot of things are just just happening.   I don't know that they're necessarily   making efforts to do things.   I went to the the fun fair and and saw that. You know, we there used to be a lot more, it seems like,   and maybe that's an older person's,   perspective. Your memory plays tricks on you,   and and an event that may have happened over two or three days was the whole summer long. Yeah. You know? And it wasn't. Yeah.  

But the fun fair was was a nice event   for for families and that type of thing. There are things I would do different that I didn't like about it, but that's just me. Yeah. You know? And they didn't do the event for me. So   and that's a big part of what people need to look at. I think we're all too quick to criticize.   Yeah.   So   even if it's a positive thing and you're trying to do something, and it's   it's easy to criticize and pick on it. Yeah. The not so well things that   I think those go unsaid.  

[00:24:41] Unknown:

Well, I mean, if you wanna talk about them, you can.   Well I mean, I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you about CRAs and development. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's coming.  

[00:24:50] Unknown:

The,   the that's that's an obvious thing that they're they're not doing well.   And and I don't know the inside details on a lot of things.   In fact, I think very few people actually do,   but   public relations hasn't been a a gift on the village. Yeah. And when I say village, I'm talking about the the the administration,   the people that are involved that are running it. I don't single out any single individual and point towards them at that point and say, you know, it's it's it's Yeah. It's this because it it is a group effort. Yeah. And and   if I am part of that group, well, then I become part of that   problem or cure, whichever it may be depending on how you look at it. So   it it's it's kind of of one of those difficult things that  

[00:25:44] Unknown:

Yeah. You look at. So Well, then let's before we get into   the obvious hot button issues, can you just talk about your background a little bit?   How far you want me to go back? Well, how far you wanna go back? I'm 61 years old. It's a long podcast, so it'll take your time.  

[00:26:00] Unknown:

We have no time limits. Excellent.   Well, I've as we were discussing before the we started the podcast,   I'm the fourth generation of of five generations to live in this house.   I've been in Batavia since   roughly about 1969.   I graduated from Batavia High School in 1982. I did all didn't go to kindergarten, went,   first grade through twelfth grade all at Batavia.   Left there in 1982 and went to the University of Bridgeport in Connecticut.   Spent a couple semesters up there, came back and went to the University of Cincinnati   and found that I liked working various positions and and and doing things more than I like spending time in school. Yep.  

And   went from there to,   oh, various odd jobs. Worked for, there was a an old machine tool company here in Batavia called Carol Jamieson. Okay. I I worked worked there. I worked for,   the the Onstead family when they had a Pennzoil gas station.   Sometime in the mid early eighties,   around '85, '84, somewhere around there. I don't I'd have to look up the exact date. I was appointed zoning administrator for the village of Batavia.   It was a part time job that,   that worked into kind of a full time,   thing for me. I spent a lot of time doing it, did a lot of organization.   Their their records and their files were were   not really good, let's just say. Yeah. Don't wanna criticize anybody that did it before me because I don't know who it was anyway. But,   so I spent quite a few years as the zoning administrator.  

Learned a lot about zoning mainly on my own,   going to,   auditing some classes down at the University of Cincinnati in their planning department.   Did sort of had a mentor that was on council at the time, a man named John Howe.   Any anything that came up   in the region   that was offered as a course   dealing with zoning and planning,   he would, bring up in council and and   and have them send me to it. So, you know, they might reimburse my gas or pay the fee for me to get there, that kind of thing. So I I really developed a a big interest in zoning and planning and and and that type of thing.   Didn't go into it   for college.  

I think, about what was it? About nineteen ninety one,   ninety two, they decided to hire a full time administrator. Mhmm. That man was, Jim James. They hired him. And,   the way I found out about it was Jim called me on the phone and asked me a question.   I I didn't even get a letter that, hey. You're you know, we're we're we're dissolving your position. We hired a full time guy.   So,   around that time, I was working for a civil engineering firm,   company called GJ Thielen and Associates. It was a family owned company.   They've they've since sold to somebody else, but they specialized in, site development   for kinda kinda so what's happening around here now with these subdivisions and things, I saw that all back in the the night. I was gonna say that sounds like development. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We did I did a lot of development work.  

There was a little bit out this way.   Some of the stuff that's on Shaler,   I was part of those. Babson Park was one of them by name that I can I don't remember the names of all of them?   Over in Milford, we did some, but a lot of it was   the 7175   corridors.  

[00:29:35] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:29:36] Unknown:

But we did a lot of residential development,   a lot of commercial development.   Cherry Grove where the Kroger's is. Mhmm. That used to be a McAlpin store. Okay. How old you are if you remember that? I remember McAlpin's. Okay. Yeah. That was one I was I don't remember that particular one. I don't wanna Yeah. Yeah. I I was there from from the from the time, the building had been raised, and it was just a big hole in the ground   till Kroger was put on top of it. Mhmm. And what my responsibilities were was was a lot of things were to supervise   how the materials were put back in to make sure there was compaction to ensure that it was a solid foundation for the building going on top of it. And then I did a lot of materials testing, concrete, steel, paint, asphalt,   insulation,   lots of different sync, developed some   some testing methods for the engineering firm.  

Lot of roads and highway construction, worked side by side with state of Ohio testing   asphalt that   so lot lot of background in in building Sure. Things.   Decided that,   we're Jamie and I were   starting our family. Mhmm. And I was leaving in the morning at 06:00, getting home at six to 07:00,   five, six days a week, and it was just a little too much, too far from home. I might drive   four, five, 600 miles a week. Yeah. We were running   I worked Dayton.   I'd worked south down at, like, Richwood,   worked out in Indiana,   and you never knew from you might go from one to the other because I'd supervised multiple jobs. How old were you at the time?  

28,   1994.   Grace was born in '97. So, yeah, 9092  

[00:31:22] Unknown:

to '97. So Well, the the reason I asked is because I worked on, I studied geology in college.   And so I went and worked on oil rigs down in Texas and Pennsylvania and things like that. Oh, wow. But it's the same thing. Right? It's like you're working eighty eight hour weeks. You're on you're driving everywhere, and it's just not conducive for a family life. Absolutely. It's great when you're young and, you know, you're making money and it's great, but,  

[00:31:46] Unknown:

man, it's rough, all that driving. I don't care how long you did. I have a Iot of respect for somebody that says they've worked on an oil rig. Well, l mean, l wasn't a roughneck.  

[00:31:55] Unknown:

L don't wanna give people the impression that l was, you know, doing manual labor all day.   I was basically in a trailer looking at rocks. But Oh, absolutely. Core samples. Yeah. Yeah. And that's essentially what it was. You know, they because when the you know, they got the mud that goes down in the hole, bring up all the rocks. I'd get those rocks. I'd look at them and say, like, oh, you're where you should be. Or, oh, no. You faulted out and Yeah. Now you gotta figure out what to do. That's really You gotta spend millions of dollars to figure out how we all screwed up. That's that's interesting. You and I have some something similar in our background. We I did a lot of that Yeah. Because part of my job was was analyzing soil material Yeah. Different different types of soils,  

[00:32:32] Unknown:

and and knowing when they were compacted, we used what's called a nuclear density gauge. Yeah. Yeah. So when that material was put in in six to eight inch lifts and compacted, we then came in with a density gauge and made sure it was hard enough for whatever surface was going on top of it. Yeah. We would actually there was a tool on the end of the bit that would measure gamma radiation.  

[00:32:50] Unknown:

Yeah. And you could tell where you are based on that curve. Oh, yeah. So I well, it's called geosteering. So I had a little program, and I match everything up and  

[00:32:59] Unknown:

steer the bed. That's neat. That's neat stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so I I I did a lot of that, and then,   we were expecting,   our first child, Grace,   in '97,   and I decided that around that time, I had my insurance license. I got that in 1992. Why'd you get that?   I I was working as a bartender. Yeah. And a good friend of mine Worked as a bartender too.  

[00:33:23] Unknown:

Look at that.  

[00:33:25] Unknown:

Good friend of mine that worked with me, and, his mother was a, a regional manager for Aflac. Okay. And and I say this was before there was a duck. Mhmm. So   no one knew really knew who Aflac was.   So that got me into the employee benefit programs. I worked a lot with the the state of Ohio, Hamilton County. So you'd you'd go in and sit and enroll people. You'd explain the benefits that were available to them. These were all supplemental. So they they they weren't paid for by the employer.   The the individual had to buy them. Mhmm. So so I did that for a little while, and,   basically, it was a it was a cold calling. Yep. They sat you down with a phone book and said call business. Oh, that's awful, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. It was  

[00:34:07] Unknown:

I've done that too. Yeah. I've cold called.  

[00:34:10] Unknown:

I you know? And now and now here, you know, thirty three years later, I'm I'm full time in the insurance business.   I do zero cold calling. Yeah. It's a 100% referral in my business today, and that's the way I've built it over the   the last twenty some years,   because that   I I tell we we do a lot of Medicare, and I sit down with our Medicare clients. Jamie and I work it together because it's two different   they get two for the price of one is what we say. Yeah. Because you you've got two different sets of eyes looking at at what their situation is, and there are a lot of decisions that people can make.   Early ones that can really mess things up for a long long range.  

And what we do is we   I tell them that I'm not selling you anything. I'm not selling you a product.   If I'm selling something, it's me. Right. I'm selling you my knowledge and my ability. Mhmm. I don't care what you buy. Yeah. I'm going to advise you as to how you should be covered   based on the information you give me. Now if you don't if you don't tell me everything, then I'm I'm gonna give you  

[00:35:12] Unknown:

Kinda like a lawyer. Right? If you if you don't tell your lawyer everything. A 100%.  

[00:35:16] Unknown:

So in in '97,   flashback here,   think, tendency to tell long stories. I get that from my wife.  

[00:35:25] Unknown:

But like I said, it's a long podcast. But we,  

[00:35:28] Unknown:

I looked at that and there were,   banks at the time getting into the insurance   Mhmm. And I thought, well, if I can get on with a regional bank, a local bank,   maybe they go into the insurance business. I've got my license, and I can I can work that side? So I started   with Clermont Savings Bank, which became   Park   Park National? Park National. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I I was at Clermont Savings   and,   just started as a as a basic customer service person, a teller. Mhmm. Worked at the biggest branch out at at at Eastgate before Jungle Jim's was there,   and then ended up down at Milford where I became head of their purchasing. I bought all their   ink and staples and paper and and and everything like that, and also did the full time job of taking people's money, cashing their checks, and that type of thing.  

And that's when Grace was born. Nice.   So I spent,   about a year with with Clermont Savings, and one of our biggest customer was customers was a, a local insurance agency.   And I mentioned to them that I had a life and health insurance license, and I was interested in in maintaining that and possibly selling some.   And that turned into   them offering me a job. Yeah. So I transitioned and went that's when I became full time. It was around 1998.   Okay. Full time in the insurance industry.   Have built   four insurance businesses. We're on   on our fifth one or fourth one now.  

So we we, in fact, just as of September 1,   officially announced it. We got our insurance license for our own agency. Nice. So I've worked under   three different   agencies over that twenty four years working for myself, but now we're we're doing it on our own. Oh, congratulations. Yeah. Yeah. So that's   a long story for your work background. That's a little bit about that. Oh, so that's  

[00:37:24] Unknown:

it's nice to hear a work background because I have a very similar it's like, yeah, I bartending. I was out in the oil field, and there was freelance writing, and I was, you know, it's   I I appreciate a a a roundabout career path because Good. I you know, I don't I don't know. I feel like that's really the only way to do it. Makes you well rounded. Very well rounded. Well, it gives gives you more experience and  

[00:37:46] Unknown:

and and knowledge about many different things. And I and I think that's one of the things that that leads me to what I feel is qualifies me for being part of village council.   I not just the fact that I've lived here, but I've been involved. Yeah.  

[00:38:00] Unknown:

Well, the insurance agency know everybody. I mean, that's Yeah. Well, and that's a big part of my  

[00:38:06] Unknown:

with the insurance industry, it's it's an ever changing evolving   business. Mhmm. And I've gone through different periods in my career where I've focused on certain things.   I used to do a lot of farms, a lot of agriculture. Mhmm.   Had some had some dairies that were milking three, four hundred head of cattle a day,   some beef,   beef farms that that were very high dollar,   had had had,   had a horse operation that had a 120 Arabian horses. Yeah.   Then transitioned from that. I did a lot of employee benefit programs. I did, anywhere from I specialized in the two to 50 range employees,   but then helped out on other groups that were 400,   quoted Clermont County's health insurance at one point. They're Yeah. I think they had 12 or 1,400 employees back when I did that.  

I was the health insurance agent for the village of Batavia for many years.   I was the property So if you get on council, everybody will have great health and No. No. I've I've transitioned away from that,   and and not to yeah. I've I've   I always try my best to if I only have good things to say, that's what I try and say. Don't say the bad ones. You know, I was raised my one thing my grandmother always taught me was if if if you don't have something good to say about somebody, don't say it. Don't say it. And that's a that's a hard thing to do. That's very hard. And but,   the the,   the Obamacare   that most people call it, the Affordable Care Act,   radically changed   the health insurance industry, which we all have become a part of that. Yeah. I saw that coming, and I I read through the lines.  

I and it wasn't a partisan issue. Right. I didn't see it as, oh,   Obama, evil, bad Democrat.   I I didn't look at it from that perspective. I looked at it from the health insurance perspective perspective, my industry, what I was working in.   And   I saw what it was going to do. Yeah.   I called a good friend of mine who was staying in the industry   and   about gave my wife a stroke.   When Judy sat across the table from me and I slid some files over, I said, these are yours.   I'll go with you and introduce you to all these people. Yeah.   I gave away money Yeah.  

Because I couldn't,   in good conscious,  

[00:40:27] Unknown:

represent those people and and and guide them through a system that I knew was gonna be a nightmare. Yeah. I as a freelance writer, I that's where I have to go. I have to go to the marketplace Right. For my insurance, and I'll tell you,   man, I could I could rant about that for hours. Yeah. Just hours and hours. It  

[00:40:44] Unknown:

Yeah. So we won't go down there. It's a mess. It's a mess. But yeah. So so lots of group health, group benefits. I've been involved in that.   I I was the property and casualty agent for the village of Batavia up until I ran for election in the last term.   I I   sold that piece of business so that I was had no conflict of interest. Yeah. I didn't didn't want anything like that. But I still do public entity work, so that gives me another thing that, you know, bringing me back around to to what we were talking about. I I understand   the way public entities work. Yeah. I understand where their finances come from.  

I understand the the material aspects of the job, the day in, day out things.   So I think that also gives me something that's   a couple of legs up on and, again, not to criticize anybody, but anybody that I'm running against. Yeah. I think it was I interviewed Deidre Hazlebaker in Loveland,  

[00:41:38] Unknown:

and I really like the way she she said, you know, I'm not running against anybody. I'm running for  

[00:41:43] Unknown:

counsel. A 100%. Yeah. 100%. And I think that's a good way to look at it. Yeah. There are four seats, and I'm running for one of them. Yeah.   It's whoever gets the other three is that's   we'll work together. Yeah.  

[00:41:55] Unknown:

So   let's talk about what I think is probably   the hot button issue around the village and township.   The CRAs, the development, the, you know, the by Baumann.   What   I guess, what's your position on on all that? How do you how do you feel about what the village has been doing with developments?  

[00:42:16] Unknown:

Wow.   Well and this this this isn't just Michael and Patrick sitting, having a conversation.   But,   all joking aside, I I I tell people that   I'm I'm pretty much an open book. There there are lots of people who who who claim they they know Michael Kinner. Mhmm. They really don't because they've heard it based on hearsay or what someone else has said. But   a big thing that that gets me in trouble, and it may get me in trouble with talking to you, and I don't sugarcoat things and and and I quite   honestly put put out what my beliefs are.   In a word,   it's wrong. Okay.  

It's it's it's   now   that's my perspective.  

[00:43:04] Unknown:

Why why how did you come to the conclusion that it's wrong?  

[00:43:08] Unknown:

Well,   based on my background,   based on my   knowledge and understanding of zoning and planning,   And my experience dealing with other entities and and observing,   you you learn a lot   in the world by watching others. Mhmm. You can sit in a classroom. Yeah. You you can you can grab a shovel and dig a ditch and but   you can also learn a lot by watching somebody do a job. And and part of my job,   when it comes to ensuring public entities is watching what these other entities are doing. Mhmm. I've worked with multiple ones in Clermont County, Hamilton, Brown, Warren,   whether I was the particular agent or I was just servicing it with another agent,   and you have discussions in with with   trustees   or council members or mayors,   and and you you understand the inner workings of things,   it's not the way I would have done it.  

But somehow   and and this is my understanding based on things that I've heard   from conversations, sitting in council meetings.   Somewhere,   the idea   that   and and I heard it said.   In fact, I've been working on, a speech for the Wednesday Meet the Candidate   thing.   And and somewhere, I think I noted in there that, someone commented   that Batavia had to grow or die. Yeah.   Well,   when it comes to municipalities,   death can be a long process. Mhmm.  

[00:44:52] Unknown:

And and the and the Well, first off, do you think that's true?  

[00:44:55] Unknown:

That it would that it had to grow or die? To grow or die. Absolutely not. Okay. Absolutely not.   And and it depends on your perspective. Mhmm. Okay. I I've I've been here fifty seven years. I I grew up as a as a as a young child riding my bike through town. Mhmm.   And   and and I can I can a lot of people would be bored hearing these things, but it's it's nostalgia?   Right? It's it's you're reminiscing about the good old days. Yeah. You know? That's a crazy old man on his porch kinda   deal. But Do you yell at kids to get off of your lawn yet? No. We don't. No. No kids on the lawn. But but, I mean, I I could I could hop on my bike on a on a summer afternoon and and ride up and maybe stop at Krieger Tire and and put air in my tire. Mhmm. You know, that was on on Market Street.   Then maybe maybe go across the street to Moonlight Chile and have a grilled cheese sandwich or something.  

Get with some buddies, and we'd play ball on on, Spring Street in missus Orner's Yard, you know, that kind of thing. And you you so you had that community and you had that business.   The businesses are gone. Mhmm. And maybe that's what they see is is is the death.   But but the houses are still here.  

[00:46:09] Unknown:

What I was gonna ask because I you know,   I've heard   the the point made   that if you don't get residents in, then you're not gonna be able to get businesses in downtown.   Is that something you'd agree with?  

[00:46:24] Unknown:

Business development today depend depending on   what type of business it is, and and it goes back to there that's another thing that takes me back to what my early career was with Thielen. Mhmm. Doing a lot of work with Kroger.   I I worked two major Kroger stores that I worked on was the Cherry Grove Kroger and the one up in Mason by Kings Island. Mhmm. Took them from dirt to to building, you know, all the way up.   Kroger I had a lot of meetings with Kroger representatives,   ran engineering meetings at at the Mason's Mason,   site.  

They   and it's there's nothing simple, but the simplified version of it is is they look at rooftops.   Mhmm. That's how you determine where you're going to locate something, whether it's Kroger.   I used to jokingly say that that my ideal career   would be either to be the land purchaser for CVS Mhmm. Or Walgreens. Yeah. Because there's one on one corner and one on the other. Yeah. So so my whole mission would be to become really good buddies with the guy that rep or lady that represented the other side and say, where are you gonna build? Yeah. I'll just build one next And I'll build across yeah. Yeah. I'd had a it would be a lock. Yeah. So that's what the majority of they're looking at rooftops. Mhmm. Okay?   Well,   along with those rooftops, you also have to have   usable   land   for whatever other side of the development you're looking at.  

Batavia   has   taken the one prime piece of land that they had for potential retail   or commercial development,   and they're putting an apartment complex on it. That's right across from the Red Barn. Right right by the Red Barn. Yeah. Yeah. On   going back to our our our geology   lessons, it   I'm not sure I'd put a lot of weight on that without some serious foundation. It's a little,   Well, it's it's A little sandy? It's yeah. Very sandy. Yeah. Yeah. Very deep. Yeah. Well, I mean, the river deposits. It is. Yeah. The the river has changed course like where we're sitting on my deck. We're 110 feet from the water. Get great soil. Yeah. Yeah. We're a 110 feet from the water now, but at some point throughout history, we're sitting in the river. Exactly. Well, that same way in that whole bottom down there. That's what that was. But, yeah, I mean, I'm just saying you can't build on it. You know, we do our engineering work, and I'm sure we could get something there. And they'll probably put apartments there. I I hope not. I hope something happens that could change that, but maybe not. So so if you if you if you   and I'll wrap this up real quick. I know you're ready to go. We we've got   we've got Harvest Meadows. We've got Streamside. We've got   whatever they're calling the airport development   today. I don't I don't know what name they're using or how they're doing that.  

And then we've got these 500 apartments. So you're creating the rooftops.   Yeah.   Where where are you gonna put the   the Kroger? And not to pick on Kroger by name, but where are you gonna put the grocery store? Where are you going to put you know, are we gonna annex more? Yeah. And where where are we gonna annex?  

[00:49:22] Unknown:

How do you feel about annexation in general? Annexation is fine Mhmm.  

[00:49:27] Unknown:

As long as it as it's it's well planned.   And and that's a problem, and this is not a criticism of the current administration   or anybody that's there. Mhmm. I guess I guess it could be perceived that way because, ultimately,   at some point, it's someone's responsibility.   But I'll go back   almost forty years.   This village is not planned. Mhmm.   They they they've they've been reactionary   to a lot of things. We used to have right down the street from from, where we're sitting used to be   a a a water treatment plant. Mhmm.   It's been gone.  

Thirty   thirty years, twenty eight years, whatever out. They they lost that.   We the other direction, the village had their own sewer treatment plant. It's gone.   A big part of that was because   they didn't plan.   Mhmm. They they they they didn't budget. They didn't do upgrades. They didn't plan for the future, and and that's why those things are gone.   So   with the zoning, it was the same thing.   I'm I don't I don't ever pat myself on the back. I'm the last person   that will ever compliment myself.   I'm I'm just not that person. I I would I'm I'm I would much rather give somebody else credit for something I did and watch them take the accolades for it because I don't want really want the attention. Mhmm. I honestly don't. That's not a a pitch for something. Yeah. Saying, oh, he's a swell guy. You know? Yeah. No. That that's just that's just me. A swell guy. You know? Well, thank you. You're welcome. You know, my wife and I live here.   We   we we   like our house because it's a a familial   generational thing.  

But we've created something that most people that come here will look at it. You're the rooster in the background maybe. Yeah.   We we've created,   you know, God God   there's a and I'm I'm I'm horrible with with biblical things or or even sayings like that. But but god plants you where you're needed or where something like that. Yeah. Yeah. So we've wanted a farm for years. We've looked at Adams County. We used to drag our children all over looking at land, and and it was ever it was not this, not that, not this. You know, we're too picky. Mhmm. We didn't find something. So so god finally pointed to us and said, you're you're gonna grow right where you're at. Mhmm. So that's acre and a quarter farm. That's where we're sitting. You know, everybody thinks we're nuts. If you got sheep in your you got goats in your front yard, well, technically, it's my side yard. But   goats and sheep, I mean and and they're they're champion animals. You know? They've they've shown at fairs and and shows and that kind of thing. So we we do that kind of thing right, but   planning is the problem.  

The village didn't plan. Mhmm. I encouraged that thirty, forty years ago. I I recall   just vividly walking into my first planning commission meeting. It's ironic. That's what it's called. It's planning commission. Mhmm.   And, basically, all they did was hear,   appeals for zoning things. You know, if you wanted to put a shed or something. A variance. Yeah. You wanna put a shed, and it's oh, it's I I I it's eight feet from your property line, not 10. We'll give us an extra $30, and we'll let you put it there.   I walked in, and I sat down. And and and this is part of where I said before,   and this may have been off the podcast, but I I educated myself when it came to zoning. Mhmm. You know, I had a mentor that really worked with me. He was on council. He he really pushed me to educate myself, and he saw the future of what it could be.  

But I went in and sat down on my first plan commission meeting, and I looked at the gentleman there, and I said,   what's the five year plan for the village?   And I kid you not, this gentleman who whom I respect to this day looks at his watch and says,   I don't know about that, but we got a five minute plan to end this meeting.   Yeah. There was there was no plan. Yeah.   And even if you look at the documents that are on hand today for the village,   it doesn't give me a clear idea   of of what the the growth plan is   other than to to and and I think what the perspective and part of what's created a lot of the animosity in this, one is the density Mhmm. Especially with the airport development Is you're you're putting way too many properties. I can't remember what the density is at the airport.  

I think it's, like, four and a half or five An acre. Per acre. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and that's confusing to a lot of people because there are areas that are taken out of that. It net versus gross. Right. It doesn't count roadway, parkways, detention basins. Those don't count. Right. So so you have have high numbers like that. But   the the whole annexation thing,   which I I I and I'm saying this from a planning aspect, not a criticism.   Okay. You're gonna annex to grow. What needs to be balanced? Mhmm.   You you don't you have to you have to look at and then it's kind of ironic because I've always jokingly said that that that the people that run Batavia see Batavia as the center of the earth Mhmm. Or center of the world. This is everything evolves around Batavia. Mhmm. You know, we have a soul whole solar system, but but it it evolves around Batavia. Yeah.  

And and I think that's probably that way in a lot of places. It our communities are important to us. And so I I kinda say that lightheartedly, but,   you you if you're gonna bring in x number of residential units,   then you need to bring in y number of   retail commercial, you know, a balanced development. Right. You know, and and I don't   I know there's a big adversarial thing between Batavia Village and Batavia Township.   But if you look at Batavia Township, it's growing. Yes. They're they're they're putting more subdivisions   more than I'd like to see. Yeah. I I have a bachelor's degree in agriculture. Mhmm. You know, we didn't I didn't finish telling you that part of it. We tan I tangent off, but I got my bachelor's degree in agriculture and business from Fort Hays State University in Hays, Kansas.  

So   I kinda use that. It's it's my avocation and my vocation. Mhmm. I I I love agriculture. Always have.   So I hate seeing these farms go. Yeah.   We can't tell people what they can do with their land. I was about to ask about that. There are already too many restrictions as it is. Mhmm. If if I don't pay my property taxes well, in my case, my bank doesn't pay my property taxes because I have a mortgage on my home and it's escrowed like like many people. Yeah. If I if if we don't pay our property taxes,   the the county treasurer is only gonna go several years,   and they're gonna say, hey.  

The the property tax hasn't been paid. We're for we're gonna we're gonna put a lien on that house, or we're gonna take it and force a sale. Yeah. So do we really own it?   You know? But another step beyond that would be the government telling you, hey. You you Kinner, you've got an acre and a quarter   with one house on it and two people live in it. We we think there should be a 12 unit apartment building and,   with, two bedroom apartments with four people each. So there should be 48 people living on your acre. You need to get out of your house. Yeah.   I that I don't see that as being a a a popular idea or or a good idea even   and something that government should be involved in. Yeah.  



[00:56:47] Unknown:

So so   what  

[00:56:51] Unknown:

because growth I mean, I think it's kind of apparent that growth is coming this way. I mean, development is coming this way. Oh, yeah. And it and it go it's gone in phases over the years different directions. Yeah. You know, I saw it in my career with dealing how it went up '71, '75.   There was a lot of development. A little bit came out this way to Union Township on Shaler and that kind of direction. Mhmm. It's it's it's natural. It's gonna grow. Well, I think  

[00:57:14] Unknown:

like, I I asked the question in the intro to my last podcast. You know, what is the character of the county and the township? And I think I asked you that question early on.   One of the things I hear frequently is the rural aspect Right. Of the county. So I I guess the question is, how do you   how do you balance that that pressure to develop   with wanting to keep kind of the small town   rule aspect of our township and the county, really? Well, one thing about that,  

[00:57:41] Unknown:

as far as Batavia Village goes,   and and I don't mean this to detract from anybody. Should should they listen to it to this? I please vote for me Yeah. If you live in Harvest Meadows and Streamside. Yeah. And I'm not picking on anybody. You know? They're not their fault that they moved   there. I mean No. They like the houses. They like whatever reason they bought the place. That's that's fine. That's their choice and that is their decision.   But they're and they're not outsiders.  

[00:58:04] Unknown:

Yeah.  

[00:58:06] Unknown:

But it's also not the core of the village. So I think when you're having that discussion   about the village of Batavia,   you're you're talking about something that there's the core, which is Main Street and and   and couple blocks off either direction.   And then when you get outside   of that,   as far as what you're really talking about the village Mhmm. So, you know, Harvest Meadows, Streamside,   Baumann, that that that that's not really the core. So you're looking at something different. But I think it comes down a lot of its density.   That that that rural aspect that we're talking about   is   you you've got a yard. You've got some space.  

And it doesn't necessarily have to be here in the core of the village. You you may not have a very big yard. I the standard lot   off the four blocks on each side of Main Street   is like 60 by a 100 or something. I think that's a rough dimensions. I don't recall exactly. So that's not really all that big.   But when you get out further out and   out of the on the fringes of the village, you know, we've got an acre. You get a little bit further out, you've got acre.   The the one of the problems with, like, the Baumann development in particular,   you've got   five acre tracks. Two two to five I'll say two to five acre surrounds it. You've got an airport, which I guess you really can't count that as far as your development. You have to look at it at commercial on that side.  

So it needs to be balanced.   If I'm if I'm one of those people that lives in the property that immediately abuts this development,   I'm not gonna be happy. Yeah. You're you're gonna you're gonna put three to five homes   are are gonna hit my property line.   You're talking about light. You're you're talking about a lot of things that that are gonna just ruin the environment   that that you've worked for   Yeah. Up there. And then but then you've got different you go to Stream Side,   and you've got different lot sizes, different home sizes. You go to Harvest Meadows, same thing. So so you really   they're all different. Mhmm. So it's kinda hard to say just what's what's the vision of the village. Right. So are we talking about Main Street? Are are we talking about, you know, the the business the business section? Are we talking about the presidential? Right. So And I'm gonna ask you about  

[01:00:26] Unknown:

your vision for the village.   But   and given your agricultural education and background,   because, you know, I'm I'm a huge believer in property rights. You know, if I buy a piece of land or a house, it's mine. And I get to do what I what I will with it. That's kinda how this is set up.   But   I also realized that, you know, my property is contextual.   Right? Like, it's in the context of my neighbors. So Right. I can't build something on my property that floods my neighbor. Right. I might legally be able to do that, but that's certainly not very ethical.   So how do you   I guess, how do you,   I don't know what you read the right, I guess my main question is, is everybody looks at economic development and they think we need subdivisions   and   big office buildings.  

Is there another way, do you think,   to incentivize   somebody who doesn't have any buyer for their land or anybody, like, kids that don't wanna work the land anymore   to try to keep that rule? That's just a question I've been thinking about. Like, I don't know if anybody approaches economic development   from an agricultural  

[01:01:30] Unknown:

mindset. You know? Some something that that used to exist, and I don't know if it does. I'm sure it does in in in some areas.   But,   one one thing that that used to be part of government was looking at a at a a continuity plan for business. Mhmm. May maybe you've got a business on Main Street, and it's,   really doing well,   does good business. Lots of people support it. But the owner is,   in his seventies.   He's he's got no children interested in working the business. He's got no no prospects Right. That kind of thing.   Part of the function of government   in that point and and I'm not a big proponent of of government running anything Right. We're taking over anything. It's it it is   freedom, and that that gets me on to another topic as far as what zoning should be. Yeah.  

But   and that's coming from someone who who was an administrator of it.   The the   they used to look at helping that person continue that business.   You you help it just like today, you go out and recruit to bring in a Chipotle or whatever to a vacant spot.   You're gonna go find   a person that's gonna take over that person's job. Yeah. That can be a function of government.   It's it's how you interact with local businesses Yeah. And and and and how they're serving your community and and and they become interwebbed with   with   with the known known for the community. I mean, there there are places you can go where it's, oh, I'm going so and so because of this. Yeah.  

So that's something that government can do. Government they can work with existing business owners. You create a relationship to do that. Yeah. I don't think Batavia has done that very well at all   for a long, long, long time. Yeah. And then not just like the last five years. Oh, no. Yeah. No. Even longer. Yeah. And and and   and part of that's in my speech for Wednesday.   But I have a list created by a a a a man that was he was well loved. His name was Calvin Lewis.   Calvin was a former township trustee   for Batavia Township. Mhmm.  

Grew up here in Batavia.   He used to come in my wife's coffee shop, and and we've we'd been good friends for years. And, and Calvin, we used to be in rotary together,   and and he one day   brings in   three or four pages,   yellow legal pages of writing. Mhmm.   And he named every business   from starting oh, a starting point, like, down by the train bridge on on West Main Street, and he went all the way up Main Street, across the street, back down the other side, naming every business and every business owner who was there.   Things change. Buying habits change. Mhmm. You know, now it's so easy to pick up a phone,   computer,   Amazon.  

Yeah. It might be here in four hours. Oh, yeah. Who knows? Half my job is breaking down Amazon boxes. Oh, yeah. And those are just the ones your wife gets. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I've become an expert at breaking down boxes. Me too. Me too. Fortunate thing in agriculture, though, those boxes, since they don't have a lot of color on it, compost, or they make a great starter for a no dig garden. So Oh, nice. We can start a we can do a separate podcast podcast on gardening. No dig gardening. Yeah.   But I'd like that, actually. But but, anyway, you know, a lot of those businesses are gone because they've outlived their usefulness. Yeah.  

Some of them disappointingly.   A good friend   through school person I knew,   Terry Bernard. His grandfather had a shoe shop. Terry ended up taking it on for a while.   You know, I've got a pair of boots inside that need new heels on. Yeah. Can't find anywhere to do it. Yeah. You know? So what do you do? You buy new boots. Well, why? These boots fit. They they seem Yeah. So if we had some way of maintaining that continuity of businesses and and encouraging somebody to come in and learn it,   but then you get into a whole   big picture thing   of what are they teaching in the schools.  

Yeah. They're they're teaching, and and this is not a criticism of schools. It's just a factual   We're talking about everybody's gonna go to college. Mhmm. And that's what they told me in 1982.   What took me till, 2021   to graduate from college, I was on a thirty nine year plan.  

[01:05:53] Unknown:

Now maybe I was slow. We call guys in college who were on their fifth year super seniors. So Yeah. You must have you'd like a super  

[01:06:00] Unknown:

duper senior. Super geriatric   senior. Yeah.   You know, and and I and I put that out there for my pundits. You know, calling me slow, that gives them something to get. I'm I'm assuming they'll all wanna listen to this just to pick on me.   But,   but   we're not all college students. No.   And and I think we're finding that now that we need plumbers.   We need electricians.   We need HVAC   guys.   We need all those things, and there's nothing wrong with doing any of those for your career. And,  

[01:06:32] Unknown:

this is a bit of a tangent, but   it's lucrative. Like Oh, absolutely.   I mean, plumbers   even just if you're just a plumber. Right? Like, you make a good living doing that. Yeah. And if you got a little business sense to you,   you can start your own plumbing business. Yeah. And and then it's sky's the limit. Yep. You know? I I heard a a a podcast Mhmm. With a plumber,  

[01:06:55] Unknown:

a a very successful plumber talking about the state of their industry. Mhmm. And he was mentioning that if someone needed a garbage disposal changed Mhmm. That they were getting to the point   where it was going to be   and I I can't remember the exact number,   but I think it was $200   an hour   in order to pay the wages Yeah. Yeah. And pay for the truck, the expenses, the benefits, everything for them to come out and change your garbage disposal.   So so if, you know It's like a money printing machine. Absolutely.   So so that's a big thing of where it comes back to. We we need to have and you see a little pieces of that occurring.  

You know,   Williamsburg,   there's a a little bakery that just opened.   And they've done some stuff on Facebook, and   I I can't remember the name. I'm not doing a plug for them anyway, but,   little things like that. Lots of sourdough is a big thing. Oh, yeah. There's lots of people doing sourdoughs. My wife included. Okay. So so She's included, actually. You might you might sell at a farm well, we had sourdough pancakes for breakfast this morning.   You might sell at a farmer's market or that kind of thing. You may put a little stand up at your house. You know, those sort of what Ohio calls cottage industries. Yep. Those things are making a comeback to where they're actually growing.   We know a woman in Bethel that has a jelly business, jam and jelly business.  

She's now got jelly in the State House in Columbus.   She's in jungle gym. She's in a she's building a commercial kitchen. Yeah. You can do those kinds of things with empty buildings here on your main street in Batavia. Mhmm.   You create an incubator. Create a space.   You got a kitchen where   your wife wants to make sourdough, but she can't do it at home.   Come do the kitchen. You you use the kitchen for a while. So then you have a storefront with that, and you sell her her baked goods and   all the other people's baked goods and that kind   eventually, that that develops and grows into something. Yeah. So there are things you can do to to bring back a business district.  

It's   you're not gonna land   the the Chipotles and the Wendy's and the fast food and the Yeah. The jeweler and the you know, you're not you're not gonna get that. Yeah. I mean, we're we're looking at regional malls that are disappearing.   You know, we're so the shopping trends are changing. So so I think there needs to be something that I've I pushed for   many years ago when there was a a an organization called the   VAOB, Village Association of Batavia,   was started to revitalize Main Street before the all the paving and and and everything was done.   That organization was started, and and they were actually,   recognized at the State House in Columbus for being the first organization   from initiation   to achieve a certain designation by a statewide program.  

They did a really good job, but an aspect of it was economic development. Mhmm. So you have to look at economic development   along   with annexation and residential development.   They have to work together. Mhmm. You you can't go one or the other.   There there has if if if you if you build all the the stores in the factories, there's nowhere for people to live. Right. If you build all the places for people to live, there's nowhere to put stores and factories. Sure. You know? And if we're trying talking about our main street,   we've got limited space anyway. Mhmm. I mean, we do have some vacant lots that that could be developed.  

We have some underutilized   buildings that that could become something,   but,   that leads you to another problem today.   Nobody reuses anything Mhmm. Anywhere in this country.   You know? I I've I've   follow a lot of things   on YouTube and watch things that that are in England.   And and I see six,   eight hundred thousand year old buildings Mhmm. Still being used today. Oh, yeah. Maybe they've gone from being a residence to a to a pub to a bakery to a back to a residence. They're still   standing. Yeah. You know? So maybe you can say, well They survived two world wars too. Exactly. Maybe it's you could say, well, they have better construction or, you know, whatever you say. But we don't we don't seem to reutilize the the existing structure. So what's that gonna say about our main street? Mhmm. There you talk about character. Yeah. Well, that is part of the character. That was part of what VAOB looked at.   You you looked at well, what the original structure under that vinyl skin that's on the outside   is nineteen   twenties.  

So it should look like this. So if you take that off and make it look pretty like this, then you put something behind that storefront. Yeah. You know, you recreate that. Well,   are we going to have businesses that will fit those buildings? Mhmm. So it's it's not just a simple answer   to anything,   but unless you try and get something in there, some some sort   of   business that people are gonna utilize,   then   there   there's no there's the character is irrelevant. Right.  

[01:12:07] Unknown:

So and I think   you've talked to you've hit on it a little bit. But,   again, another thing that I've heard   is, you know, what's the plan? You know, if you don't want these kind of developments, what's your actual vision for the township of Batavia?   Or, I'm sorry, not the township. The village of Batavia. That's the next election.   Yeah. That's not today. Well, actually Well, okay. That I I'm glad you brought that up.   No. No. We're not gonna go there? Okay. Well, that's fine. Yeah.  

[01:12:39] Unknown:

That's People might be able to put two and two together. No. No. That's it's all that's a 100% joking. It is, honestly.  

[01:12:46] Unknown:

I I So I guess my question is, what My my vision Your vision. Like, what what would you ideally like to see the village   grow into?  

[01:12:55] Unknown:

I I I think for from a zoning aspect,   a zoning and planning aspect.   I I I don't have any problem with annexation. Mhmm. You that that's the way things work. So it's like property rights. Right? Like, if you wanna be part of the village, it's your land. Right. Yeah. If you want to. If there's some something the village offers   that it that entices you, then you have every right to say, hey. I wanna be part of that. Yeah. And that's great. And and it and it could be a service. It it I'm sorry. Go ahead. I don't I don't wanna cut you off, but I'd before you get into this, I do wanna ask about  

[01:13:27] Unknown:

your   your feelings about using things like CRAs, TIFs, JEDs, things like that as economic development mechanisms.   Okay. Like, well, just what do you think about them? Do you what are their uses and purposes  

[01:13:40] Unknown:

in your mind for the village? And it and it depends on on what they are. I I do have knowledge of all of them. Mhmm. Not not, you know, maybe enough to be dangerous   Mhmm. As as I said.   But it it we'll just go with the CRA. Yeah. Because that That's fair. That deals with the village. The tax abatement in general. Yeah.   It depends   it depends on what it's for. Mhmm.   It really does.   If you're giving away something like that, first of all,   you're not just giving away   your portion of it   when when you do that. You know, there are so many entities are tied together in in this circumstance.   And   the normal person can just get on the auditor's website, pull up their property, and and look at the tax breakdown. They do a really, really good job of that. You can get on there and look and see where every dollar of your property tax goes and and and how how what entity gets it, whether it's the local school district,   the   fire, you know, living here in Batavia, you get Batavia Schools, Central Joint, CJ Fed,   senior services, the mental health, and how all that's broken down.  

If if as a village government, you   give a CRA   and you give a tax abatement,   you're not just giving away your money. Mhmm. You're giving away their money. Mhmm. Okay. If you just wanna give away that that small percentage of your property tax,   feel feel free. Go ahead. Willy nilly. Give you know? But you need to have some idea of how you're gonna get that back because   every house you put in   creates   a demand on a service that's being provided. Mhmm. So if you as a village   are providing a service of any kind, who's gonna pay for it if that property doesn't pay for it? Right.   Everybody else. Everybody lives there. So now you've got people living for free off of everybody else that lives there. Yeah. And we all know how things are with with utilities and taxes and budgets and things are tighter than they've seem to ever be. Mhmm.  

How is it fair for for one person?   Maybe maybe they live up here on Broadway and they've been here for for sixty years, raise their kids.   How's it fair for that person   to pay the taxes   for somebody living somewhere else in the community that's getting a tax abatement? Yeah.   It's not. And I can't fault the people that would move into those places. Oh, no. No. And and, you know, I when I when I last ran for election, I walked through Streamside. My wife and I walked through Streamside passing out literature and talking to people.   Without exception,   none of them were aware. Yeah. None of them were aware. Yeah. And then they were surprised when they got a pilot  

[01:16:35] Unknown:

bill in the mail. Well, and that's I I talked to,   Danielle Weisel,   who's running for   township trustee. Okay. And she lives in Lexington Run, and that's a TIF. And she's like, I had no idea that was even the tax structure. Yeah. I said, well, they didn't tell you, like, as your realtor didn't say, like, oh, by the way. And I guess TIFs, you're still paying the full amount of property, so it's not like Yeah. TIFs are different. That's that's a county thing. Yeah. That's how that is distributed. The village that that village and I don't think even the township   made that decision. No. I'm pretty sure it was the county. Yeah. And that's how they're doing all the 32 improvements. Yeah. But the the CRAs,  

[01:17:12] Unknown:

I think of having a big understanding of what those go back to is is an even more important issue. It where the money's going is is obviously a a a thing. But   CRA and what that stands for,   Community Reinvestment Act Mhmm. Or CRIA,   how however it is,   what that was created for,   my my understanding,   is something like GM Norwood. Mhmm. When GM heard Over The Rhine as an example. Over The Rhine is an example. It's somewhere that is blighted. Mhmm. Okay? Now that blighted designation is   Development, and then they   put their check mark on it. They sign it, say, okay. This is blighted.  

It's my understanding, and I haven't seen the paperwork. I haven't driven to Columbus and looked at it to see the signatures that are on there. Mhmm. It's my understanding   that the entire village of Batavia   is blighted.   Yeah.   That's And do you think that's true? Do you do you think that   Me personally?   Is is is it blighted?  

[01:18:26] Unknown:

No. I wouldn't say it's blighted. I I would say the downtown storefronts need some work, but But they're not blighted. I don't know if I'd say they're blighted. I certainly wouldn't say some of those homes back there are blighted. You you meant you mentioned Over The Rhine Mhmm. And not to pick on the city of Cincinnati or the over a lot of great history there. Because I used to work in Over The Rhine. That would that I mean,   I would look at that as blight. Like, that's that's Absolutely. Clearly a rundown area. Yeah. Yeah. When you've got plywood covering windows Yeah. For decades  

[01:18:54] Unknown:

Yeah. When you've got buildings   literally falling down around themselves Yeah. When when you've got, you   know   that that's blighted. Yeah.   But Batavia,   the entire village   has the blighted designation I didn't know that. Done by the done by the Ohio Department of Development. Yeah. Okay.   So now   the village is blighted,   but and you I'm scratching my head, so so we're on podcast, so you can't really see that.   Streamside is blighted. Mhmm.   Harvest Meadows is blighted. Mhmm.   And proposing   a new subdivision up by the airport,   that's blighted.  



[01:19:38] Unknown:

Wow.   It's an awful lot of blight. That's that's some,  

[01:19:41] Unknown:

yeah,   and, you know, my background in agriculture   and and everything, you know,   I don't see blight in a farm field. I don't see blight in the woods. Mhmm.   How is that blighted?   I I think that's a question that needs to be asked. It needs to be looked at seriously. Yeah.   How did that department of development how did that happen? Who submitted that? I I think I know.   And   that creates the problem. So you get   that designation that allows you to make these tax give these tax   abatements.   Right.   I I don't see that as being   something positive.  

Yeah.   Especially now,   real estate   sales, you you  

[01:20:29] Unknown:

I was about to ask if you even think you need them to grow. Absolutely not. Okay.  

[01:20:34] Unknown:

Absolutely not.   You   my my wife's been a a a,   like, a a real estate stalker for years. I told you we look for land. You know, we we've, you know, not because we don't like like, we have very similar wives. We we maybe do. We,   we've we've always wanted, you know, some acres, five acres, 10 acres, whatever.   So so you're obviously not gonna get that in the village, so you need to move out. I think there's one place in the village that has, like, five acres.   And I don't envy their land. You know? That's God told me not to do that part. Don't envy. Mhmm. But Well, that's another tough one. It is nice. I mean, it is. Yeah. That's my one of my toughest ones.   But,   the the,   where where was I going? I totally lost my track on that.  

What's that? I look at real estate. Yeah. Where she looks at real estate. And and   things sell so quickly.   You'll drive past and see a sign for a piece of property, and she'll say, oh, wonder what that's selling for, and looks it up, and it's pending. Yeah. So  

[01:21:34] Unknown:

even Kipp's,   like, Kipp's gravel, I think he well, I can't remember what he was asking for, but it was a lot of money. Yeah. And it didn't sit there for particularly too long. I mean No. It was a gravel pit. I know. You gotta do something to make that happen. Driving past it all that old machinery and stuff like that. I mean, that's a project. Oh, yeah. Just getting rid of those huge dump trucks and things. Yeah. No. So so yeah. They're going to go quickly,  

[01:21:57] Unknown:

but especially as far as existing   housing,   you you've got a demand for the market. Mhmm. And and I think what the problem comes back to   is   and and and you you can't fault a corporation. You can't fault somebody for wanting to make money. Yeah.   However, I think a big thing that and you sort of touched on this earlier.   What we look at is   it it may be right. It may be legal. Mhmm.   Doesn't make it ethical or moral. Right.   Unfortunately, those things can't be they they need to be part of your your   decision making, which that's the way I look at them. Legal is is is important. Right. But I wanna know is is it moral? Is it legal? Is it moral? Is it ethical?  

[01:22:45] Unknown:

And and and is it is it right with God? Well, and I always tell people too. It's like, you know, legally, I can go to a crowded park and pick my nose. Right. But, it's not a particularly good look. That's kinda gross. Exactly. There's a lot of things I can legally do. Yeah. So so no. I don't, I don't I can't imagine that CRA is necessary, but now I can see  

[01:23:04] Unknown:

how it's been done and utilized Mhmm. From my experience and and outside knowledge. Again, I don't have any.   I'm I'm I'm sort of, persona non corrado when it comes to the village office. I'm not not not well liked up there. Mhmm. For for many reasons, they go back over a long period of time, and I think a lot of it is because I'm outspoken. Mhmm. I don't I'm not I'm not a could go along to get along guy.   I'm going to ask the tough questions. I'm gonna ask I'm gonna ask lots of questions. Mhmm. And then that's part of what's got me to my point in life is I wanna understand you. Mhmm. You know, if I wanted to learn about podcast, I'm gonna ask you, well, why is this cord blue and why is that one red? How does it make a difference? That's just all they had. Right.   You know? But it's still there there are people who would take offense to that. It's like, well, what do you got against blue cords, man? They should all be red. Breaking. Do you have anything against blue cords? No. No. Nothing. Thank you. Thank you for clarifying it. Yeah. It's equal opportunity cord color.  

But but I asked the tough questions, and   a lot of times, it they're not liked. And it's, well, are you hiding something? That's why that killed Socrates. That's true. Wow.  

[01:24:14] Unknown:

He just asked questions. There you go. Yeah.  

[01:24:16] Unknown:

It's a dangerous thing to ask questions. Yeah. And and I've I've done that throughout my life, and it's I I I just I wanna understand why you wanna do something.   So when it comes to these CRAs   and and these projects,   I I understand   I've had meetings with major   and and I'm not a name dropper,   because it's it that and,   a smile will get you a cup of coffee here. We don't charge for coffee.   But   but   I I've had meetings with major developers,   residential and commercial. I've had meetings with major contractors.   I know   how to if I if if my acre and a quarter here was a 100 and a quarter acres, and I wanted to develop this,   I know how to do it. Mhmm. I'm not saying that that that I can technically put it together, that I can do but I know how it's done. Mhmm. You know, it's like you know how the sausage is made Right. Type thing. You don't have to make the sausage, but you know how it's made. Well, I I know where the money goes. I know how things and how how things are planned. Used to be when a contractor looked at going in and developing a residential subdivision,   you were talking about so many dollars per linear foot. Mhmm. And that's based on all the underground, the the the water lines, the sewer lines,   the the storm water lines, and then the pavement, the curb, the gutter. All those things contributed into so many dollars a foot. Mhmm. So if you did a 100 foot road or a thousand foot road, it was so many dollars a foot.  

So those factors are still part of development today. Mhmm.   And and that's part of what is from what I see is being done   to   these these subdivisions is those are being paid, but they're not be being paid out of the the revenue of the homeowner.   They're being paid for by the village. Mhmm.  

[01:26:14] Unknown:

And that's essentially what those pilot payments That's what the pilot payment  

[01:26:19] Unknown:

is going for. Mhmm. And and even the village and and they'll they'll tell you that that that that they call it a pass through.   They they look at the millions of dollars in debt that they have on their budget, and it's itemized. You can go to look at it. You pull up the the the latest state audit   that it's online,   and it will show you a line item for Streamside Subdivision.   Mhmm.   So those people that live in Streamside, they pay that pilot payment,   and part or all of that money goes to pay off that million dollar debt. Now where did those millions of dollars what that that that's something that that you wanna ask people.   What possibly   could the village of Batavia   be doing with debt for a subdivision?  



[01:27:08] Unknown:

I don't have an answer for that. Do you?  

[01:27:11] Unknown:

Is that a dangerous question? No. It's not a dangerous question. You might get a fed if you called or get went up to the main up to the office there. You they might not like you very much for asking the question because you're bringing something out to light that that they don't   apparently want people to know. Transparency is an issue. It's been an issue. It was an issue that I ran on in in in the last election.   What do you think the  

[01:27:37] Unknown:

because I've heard transparency come up with a lot of candidates,   not just in Batavia. Oh, no. It's it's everywhere. Yeah. Well, what do you think that stems from? Do you think it's just   local governments   not staying   up on the times and realizing that there's a lot of tools out there to be transparent? Absolutely. Okay. So, yeah, that that's part of it. Because you wanna be careful. Like, just because   a local government isn't particularly transparent,  

[01:28:02] Unknown:

I don't want people to think that that immediately equates to something nefarious is going on. It could just be that nobody knows these tools exist or Well, it's a it's a little bit nefarious too. Okay. And and maybe not nefarious. Maybe that's a strong word, but it's it's about power. Okay. And and and I think   I I think there's a tendency to see it more   in the smaller.   It's kind of on the opposite   opposite ends of the spectrum. You see   people get into office in the local, in the village   type situation, maybe the small   I see it. There are small villages around here smaller than Batavia   that and and they're   it's it's crazy. Yeah. It's crazy. And it's you've got little power things. You got people who run because,   well, they wanna control   this. I don't I don't like what they're doing on this, and so that's gonna be their their theme their whole time they're in office. They're Yeah. They're gonna watch over that guy that shoves that shovel and and make sure he does it right. You know?  

And then it goes to the other end of spectrum where you see a lot of national politicians,   particularly in the house and senate Mhmm. Where they get to that point and and it's they're riding the gravy train. They're they're   they're they're doing the inside Yeah. Trading and making the big money going from, you know,   40,000 in   in assets to $2.03, 400,000,000   in assets if you're a Nancy Pelosi kinda thing. I was gonna say that sounds like a familiar Yeah. Person. But it but but that's a part of it. Yeah. It's it's it's you get that power, and it's you're somebody. Yeah.   No worries about me ever getting that. Yeah.  

I'm   I'm nobody. I'm just like everybody else. I just wanna see everybody treated the same. Mhmm. I wanna see everybody given the same opportunities. I wanna see everybody live in a community   where they're free to do what they want, where they can be left alone. Mhmm. You know, it goes back to my core core beliefs in zoning.   It has a function.   Unfortunately,   a lot of places it's used as a weapon Mhmm. Zoning is.   If you got good neighbors, if if if you get along, if if you   have that sense of community, zoning is irrelevant.   You don't need it, but it's used as a weapon.  

If something doesn't smell,   if it doesn't make a noise,   if it's not creating some sort of environmental   hazard,   it's your property. Mhmm. You should be able to do what you want with it. I mean, you're sitting here. You're around chickens and ducks and rabbits and and   and goats and sheep. Mhmm.   Is there anything offensive in the air? You smell and it just rained. Mhmm. A slight rain, that's generally when you're gonna get something   like that.   So, you know, I I believe in individual property rights. I believe everybody should have control of their property.   You know, if if   there are people in this village who are being,   I guess they're being sued. I don't know. I haven't haven't   I don't like to get in other people's business. I think that's something it'll be hard for me doing this job.  

If they come to me, it's okay. I don't wanna go to them and knock on their door. Hey. I saw this lawsuit on the Yeah. Yeah. Because it's all public information, but I don't wanna go, you know, knock on their door. I I probably should.   But if you wanna have chickens, go and have chickens. Mhmm. There's nothing wrong with that.   If you keep them clean, if you keep you know? And if you talk to your neighbor, you know, that's   that's a that's an important thing.   You know? Do that. See, so, you know,   I think we've gone off on several tangents. That's alright. We started with CRAs, and we went out there. Well, that's kind of the point of this. I wouldn't do a c personally,   I I won't do a CRA. Mhmm.  

I not not for a residential subdivision.   Not it just is not gonna happen. Yeah.   And and I'm not   going to do anything. And and I don't I don't deal in definites like that.   It's something something I don't use are the words, you know, like never and and things like that that are so so definite.   But   I can't see myself in a place   where   I would sit back and go,   yeah, Mike.   Those 500 units on four acres   at a 100% tax abatement sounds like a great idea. You should vote for that. Mhmm. It's not going to happen. Like, I will adamant to that point. I'll I'll stick to that.   Now if you've got somebody that wants to bring that grocery store, and we've got a place for it Mhmm.  

Or if you've got somebody that wants to take   oh, across the street. The, used to be Carol Jamieson. I mentioned that to you earlier where I worked machine tool shop back in the eighties is now Anchor Fitness. Yeah. Yeah. Okay? But you're looking to sell that place. They're looking to sell it. Yeah. Now if now if you've got somebody that wants to come in and put,   I don't know, machine shop. Mhmm. We're gonna bring a machine shop back, and we're gonna put   a couple million dollars worth of, machine tools in there, and we're gonna have forty   forty employees   working.  

Sure. Let's talk about some tax breaks. Yeah. Let's talk. Because that's what those things were created for. Mhmm. We went back to Over The Rhine. We talked about GM Norwood. That's what those things were created for was so that you could take that building that's no longer utilized for what it was designed for or built for, and you can either raise it or ideally if you're in England, you're gonna reuse that property and make it function for you the way it should.   Yeah. I'll support something like that. Yeah. Bring some jobs.   Get back the balance.  

Mhmm. You do all this residential stuff.   It's it's like they're talking about these 500 luxury apartments.   That's great.   Luxury, that's a nice word. Mhmm. You know?   Where are those people gonna go?   And and I probably shouldn't say this out loud. I've said it in in   closed circles for many years.   I was part of the original   impetus behind revitalizing it and and and repaving new new new streetscape, that kind of thing. But I call it the street of dreams. Mhmm.   That's a play off of the movie Field of Dreams.   Field of Dreams,   one of the key statements in that movie was,   if you build it, they will come. Mhmm.  

I'm I'm standing on Main Street, Batavia   in the Courthouse Square,   and over those speakers,   I'm I'm I'm I'm hearing Shoeless Joe Jackson say, if you build it, they will come. Yeah. They're not coming. Yeah. They're not coming. And and a big part of the reason for that is there was no economic development   built into that program.   So if you put all these rooftops in,   you bring these apartments in,   you've got to do a balance   and be actively I mean, actively.   Everybody in in in the region has got to know we are Batavia, and we want business.   Mhmm. And we are open for business.  

And that's not the presentation   that this village   has given   in my lifetime.  

[01:35:32] Unknown:

What do you think the presentation they do give is? Like, what do what do you feel like people from outside of Batavia   view it as? Or, like, you know Go away. Yeah.  

[01:35:43] Unknown:

Go away. Stay away.   Even even today.   Yeah. Yeah.   Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's not conducive to starting a new business.   They're not business friendly.  

[01:35:56] Unknown:

Now is that the do you think that's the people or the government?  

[01:36:00] Unknown:

I I think   Or those two almost The people are the government. Yeah. I was about to say. You know, all the way down to me and and everybody in town, they are the government. And and and it's   I I really can't explain it. And I said I've I've I've I've watched it over the years by being   not not an insider,   but but not one of those making the decisions. You know, I was an employee. I was just a worker bee. You know, I wasn't making those decisions.   But,   there are businesses who have been literally run out of Batavia.   Really? Oh, yeah.  

There are buildings that have been torn down to keep businesses out of Batavia.   And now this is this and it could go back to I don't think it's an individual.   I I I I can I can   do do, you know, what my theory on a lot of things is, but but it's not an individual, and it's and it's not,   it's not conducive to to bringing people in town? Yeah. I have I have my own personal stories.   I I had a house. I went through a health situation.   Most people, I think, don't even know this about me.   I had a I went through a financial   crisis. I had three insurance agencies   lock me out of   of of my my income Mhmm. Because they they wanted to reduce my income or because one of them was because I didn't wanna participate with them anymore.  

I saw things they were doing that I didn't like and didn't agree with.   But what those owners of those agencies did is they just shut me off. They stopped paying me. Mhmm.   So since 02/2006,   I've been shut out of three insurance agencies   Really? For different reasons. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So went from from significant income to zero income overnight.   So I had had some health issues. We lived over on Wood Street. I had to tweak so we had that financial issue from that. We we struggled back and recovered, and this is not a sob story. This is but there's background to everything. I'm a big con context person.   You can you can put out a a single line quote from anybody Mhmm. And make them look like trash. Yeah. Or geniuses. Or geniuses. Yeah. Absolutely.  

But but I'm not that. It's it's all about context, and and that's a big part of the problem is it goes back to our community issue that we've talked about before. We're we're all distant from each other. Even even if you live next door, you really don't know your neighbors.   And and that's that's part of the problem with our our community   in as well as all communities in my opinion.   But, and then I had health issues.   I I had,   what's called atrial fibrillation.  

[01:38:50] Unknown:

Oh, AFib. AFib? Yeah. Yeah. My dad has that. Okay. Yeah. Well, I had, two ablations  

[01:38:55] Unknown:

Oh. To correct it. Yeah.   And then I died.   That's that's quite the health crisis. They they the doctor and this is not a criticism of the doctors. They did what they did, and we've moved on past it and and found results. But   they gave me a medicine   after a a procedure didn't I had a blood clot, and they couldn't do the procedure. I was supposed to have a third ablation,   and   they sent me home with a medication.   We've since found out that that medication   is administered in a hospital, and they monitor you for three days. Yeah. Well, this one, they sent me home with it. I took it,   and,   fortunately,   Jamie was able to get me from my house to Clermont   where,   I spent ten minutes   with no heartbeat.  

Cool. And they Really? They resuscitated me   and then,   took me   by a a ground transportation   if Air Care couldn't fly Mhmm. Down to Good Sam where I spent days in the cardiac ICU, then in the ICU, then then it let me out. Yeah.   I then changed cardiologists.   I changed electro electrophysiologists.   Yeah. I was gonna say that seems like time for a change. And that's where I learned a lot of the background on it. So I had that health issue.   So we we and we had a tenant in this house who moved out. So we're at the point where   both houses need painting. They both need some work,   and,   we decided this was the smaller house. We can do this. So we're gonna move here, and we're going to sell that house.  

So   and it was one of those situations where I'd had the financial crisis. So I don't have the money to do do lots of things. Can't hire contractors.   Excuse me,   so I contact a very good friend of mine who's in the industry   and knows people he's got connections through major real estate people who have lots of Airbnbs and lots of luxury units Yeah. In in Hyde Park in different areas of the city.   And I said, hey. I I think we can get the bank   to sell this house short.   We'll we'll take the financial crisis, the beating on it, and   you you could   you can rehab it. Mhmm. You know, it's easy.  

You know what condition it's in. You can do the work. It it needs new HVAC.   It needs some painting. It needs cosmetic stuff. The house was in really good condition. Mhmm.   We had had an offer on it from a preservationist   that he did a house in Stratford, Connecticut where I lived when I first went to college. It was really kinda kinda ironic. And he comes to our house and he says, well, yeah, I'm,   you know, he's touting his his reputation and says, I did this house. And I'm looking at him, like,   you mean the house on this block and around here? He says, how do you know Stratford? I said, well, I live there. Yeah. You know, I know that house. That's great. So we had an offer from him that that ended up,   he ended up pulling the offer because the village administrator   we're this is what we're told from him   was that the village administrator told him to let it go to foreclosure, and he could buy it cheaper at auction.  

The village administrator told him that.   Yeah.   So, anyway, my friend tries to get a group of people together to buy this house,   and he calls me several days later, and he says, Mike, he said,   I've got four or five people who I've talked to.   He said, these are guys that have the cash in their pocket to buy your house.   He said, every one of them is interested   in the project   until I tell them it's the village of Batavia.   Really? And then they say, no. Thank you.   That's the kind of   outward   appearance that this village has, and I have no connection to these people Right. Other than my friend.   I know somebody that I know a guy that knows a guy. Right. You know? But those guys that that are out there, they have this view of the village.  

That it's closed for business. That it's closed for business. That that that that they don't want people coming in. That they don't   and and I don't I don't know where that comes from.  

[01:43:11] Unknown:

That's interesting. I didn't know that.  

[01:43:15] Unknown:

So oh, go ahead. You might you might hear you you may not know that. They may say, oh, it's a conspiracy. Oh, it's whatever. But it's not. It's Yeah. I mean, that happened to me. Right. And it wasn't he wasn't out there saying, hey. This is Mike Kinner's house. Right. And, you know, Mike, that guy nobody likes. We don't like that guy because, you know, whatever. Yeah. He didn't paint his house. Yeah. It that wasn't it. It was just It was this guy going saying, hey. I've got this property,   and it's in Batavia. No. Thanks. Sorry.  

[01:43:43] Unknown:

That's interesting.   And it did from the sounds of it, that's not a new problem whatsoever.  

[01:43:48] Unknown:

No. You've got a buildings, and I don't know who I don't know the details. And and perhaps people would say, well, that's part of your job. You're running for council. You need to know everything. Well, you can't know everything. Yeah. I think You you can I think that would be unfair to put that at anybody's feet? Absolutely.   But   you've got the building. I knew it as Hartman's Hardware.   That's what it was back in the sixties, seventies.   I don't know when mister Hartman closed his business. His son, John, still lives up on Hartman Lane. Yeah. You know where that is?   But that building   is that building ever had anything in it since you've lived here?  

Which one is it? It's a two story building   next next door to the Haglish Park.   The brick building. It it had,   The print shop? It had the print shop in there when I first moved to Batavia, so that was in '99.   '90 in early nineties. March '92. And it's been empty since It's been a while. It's been a while. Just been Yeah. Yeah. And it's been sitting empty.   And then you you've got other buildings up there that have,   and not to pick on them because it's kinda the nature of the business. It happens everywhere.   You've got bail bond offices. Yeah.  

We were in the bail bond industry for a short time because it's sort of tied together with the insurance. It goes to the state department of insurance. We did bail bonds.   But you But it's also the county. So I mean, there's County seat, court houses. Yeah. That's Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go to any county. Right down the road. You're gonna see it. But that's kinda the nature of that business. So it's a storefront,   and there's nobody there. Right. You'll just go pick up pull out a business card. You know, it's not like you're walking in to to to buy something. You different bail bonds. Yeah. Try this one. This is a nice package here. Exactly.   You know, and then there's other types of businesses like that up there. Mhmm. But it's it's not something that's gonna create foot traffic. Yeah. You're not you know? And at this point, you're you've got the bail bondsman isn't creating too much foot traffic. No. That would be a problem. Yeah. There's a line around the block for the bail bondsman. You know? And and that's one of the things you can look at and say, well, why did the the, you know, why did the county put the municipal courts house outside of the village Mhmm. Which it was originally. They built it outside of the village, and that goes back to a long story about   interaction between the county and the village and how they wanted to expand, and the village didn't like   that expansion idea. They want to close Third Street and and build across and do this, and it it wasn't wasn't received well.  

I don't know if it was a cut your nose off despite your face kinda thing or Yeah. I wasn't part of the discussion. So the county put municipal down the road.   I I guess you could see that as a positive. If if there are people coming who are criminals, you don't want them in town. Right. But, you know, that's I don't know. That's that's kind of not a really a positive way to look at things, but it's Well, I think the interesting thing They got annexed anyway. Yeah.  

[01:46:40] Unknown:

I think the interesting thing   because this whole development CRA thing, I mean, it's obviously a hot button issue, and it's gotten people pretty hot on both sides.   But it's interesting to hear that it it sounds like it's   a foundational problem that goes back   Absolutely. A long ways. Absolutely. It's not it's not like we just suddenly woke up and,   you know, the village of Batavia has got a got a, you know, a contentious issue on its hands. Yeah. It sounds like for a while, the reputation of the village is we don't want anybody here. Thank you.  

[01:47:14] Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and they and they didn't actively try and and   may maybe they did. Maybe I just, I'm the I'm the goofy outsider. I don't know the details. Yeah. That but they there's no outward appearance. And from my being involved,   I haven't seen them doing anything to actively  

[01:47:33] Unknown:

recruit and bring or keep No. Businesses here. Which isn't to say they aren't, but I think that goes back to the transparency thing. If they are A 100%. Then share. A 100%. Let us know what what you're what you need to do. You could go sit in a council meeting, and you'll see a vote  

[01:47:48] Unknown:

on they'll bring a resolution up for whatever. Mhmm. And you'll see a vote with no discussion.   Now   can you tell me how that happens?   How how do we all know the details of something   enough to make a a vote, make a decision on it, and we've had no discussion? Yeah. You have you have no questions?   Really? Yeah. Not not even one? Not even a   oh, well, how many parking spaces   Yeah. Do they need? Or, oh,   what color paint are they gonna use? You don't have you don't have any questions, and you're just gonna vote, and it's gonna go through. Yeah.   So how is there any transparency   when you've got votes like that? Yeah. When you've got meetings that here's the agenda, and you you can just watch it and go bam, bam, bam, down the line Mhmm. And we're done.  

Or you can sit And to be fair, I don't know if the village if that's unique to the village. Oh, I don't I'm not saying it necessarily is, but I'm saying it's a problem here, and it needs to be fixed. Right. It needs to be stopped. Right.   You know,   public participation.   If somebody's got a question,   may you know,   you're not the smartest   six or eight, nine people sitting on that dais. Yeah. There may be somebody in the audience that knows something that you don't know about something. Yeah. They may have a perspective that's going to enlighten you. Yeah.  

[01:49:10] Unknown:

And they deserve to be heard. You know, I think I saw, this was a Millage, Millage,   Milford   council meeting, and they had this thing where they wanted to pay for parking   downtown. The city was gonna put up paid lots.   And it they had a big turnout of citizens, and everybody came up like, look. You can't do this for x y z. Maybe think about this. Maybe think about that. By the end of it, the council was like, well, clearly, nobody wants this. We're gonna table this and move on. This we're gonna put this to rest and think about it more. Yeah. And I was like, well, there. Yeah. That that seems like  

[01:49:45] Unknown:

the way local government should work. Absolutely. And that's it. It confuses me when it doesn't work that way. That's that's commune that's it. And it maybe that's an isolated incident or maybe it's the norm. Yeah. But it should be the norm here. Yeah. It should be the norm everywhere. When when when you had a hearing   when there's a hearing here that drew in   so many people that they're standing around the block Mhmm. To get in, to to to speak their piece   about   about about a topic,   and you have people sit up there   and maintain a hard   line that this is what we're doing.  

There was not even   the slightest change   that I saw   at any point down the road   in their opinions.   We're doing this. We're annexing this. We're doing this. We're   and   I don't care if they're outsiders   or insiders.   There there were people I was there at at one point. I was from the village. There were other people,   out from lived outside, but   if you if you have a zoning change,   the way the village works,   our property has one, two has has five different property owners that are contiguous.   Mhmm. So if I wanna make a change to my property,   those five property owners get notified.  



[01:51:13] Unknown:

They have a right to have a say. Yeah. When they put that golf course in because I live across the way, they they send us a notice. Sure. And I showed up, and I just don't listen to what's going on. Right. You know? Right. So of the five neighbors that I have,  

[01:51:27] Unknown:

if maybe only one of them says they don't want this,   if it's a good enough reason,   that should be sufficient. Yeah. We don't we don't need a three two three two vote out of five neighbors to say, oh, Kinner shouldn't do this. Right. That that one neighbor should be enough. Yeah. Well, that goes back to your property's contextual. A 100%.   Yeah.   And and and what happened here is   there the village   of Batavia,   I don't believe, has has any plan. They, they   I saw Jim Saul stand   before the council meeting or, the meeting one night and ask if they had used any professional planners   in developing their plan. Nobody answered him. Now I don't know why they didn't answer him,   but they didn't.  

So the indication is there is no plan,   and they haven't used any outside professionals. And all the time I was involved   as zoning administrator, and then years later, I I sat on planning commission.   Even pushing for   a professional   to come in, we never got one.   So I don't Why do you think that is?   I don't know. It's because because someone wants it their way. Mhmm. They they want the the and they have I think there's a mindset, and you see it here.   There are times where you'll go to a council meeting. There might be it used to be. That's changed   significantly because of all the zoning things where you had a room packed. Yeah.  

But you would have three to five people   max at a council meeting.   People have taken that to believe   that they're in charge. They got elected,   so what they're doing must be the right thing. And I and I heard a council person at one point say that. He said, we have a mandate to do this. And I and I'm It's funny. I heard the same thing. And I'm sitting here looking at that council person thinking back going, dude,   you got 247   votes.   It got you elected, but there's 1,200 voters or whatever the number is, and there's  

[01:53:31] Unknown:

almost 2,000 people that live in the village. 200 is not a mandate. Yeah. So your perspective is the problem. Well, the other thing that makes me because I like I said, I've talked to a couple different people, and it's transparency   Mhmm. From Loveland to Batavia. I mean, transparency All it's everywhere.   People are kind of seem to be running on. Yeah.   And it makes me wonder what local governments are doing because in marketing, that's the world I come from. Yeah. Marketing PR. It's voice of customer. Right? Like, you want to hear from your customer Right. What they think of your product, how it should be improved. Sure. And I I would call it voice of constituent. Right. How are you capturing that and really knowing that you're doing what your constituents want? Well, I have I have ways  

[01:54:14] Unknown:

that or ideas   to do that,   and and getting those people to engage, I think, is is Well, that's the issue. Right? That's that's gonna be difficult. I mean, you've got some people who are complacent who don't care, and that's okay. If you don't care, you don't care.   A lot of what happens in our government, whether it's local or all the way up to a federal level, happens on a very small percentage. Yeah. I mean, I used I for many years, I was a presiding judge   at elections for Clermont County at different polling places. Mhmm. And   I I worked presidential elections and saw,   you know, 42   turnout or 37%   turnout. Yeah. You know, if if one in three or or one in every two people show up to vote,   where is everybody else? Yeah. I would make the claim that apathy is how democracy is done. It is apathy, and I think that's that's a big part of that's been created here. One has been by deception.  

People believe everything's fine. Mhmm. And they've been told that by elected officials. I I've had a a neighbor tell me that one day. I said, do you realize that the based on the last audit, the village is $8,000,000 in debt? What?  

[01:55:19] Unknown:

Well, so Is the is the village so in debt?  

[01:55:22] Unknown:

Under eights. It's between 7 and 8. They've it's gone down a few $100,000   since the last there's a company called Milhoff and Stang, I think it's called. I I don't have it in front of me. That is an auditor,   commissioned by the state of Ohio, and the village is audited.   And   in that period of time, if you look them up on the Internet, you can Google it, village of Batavia   audit. Mhmm.   It went from, like, 8.7   to 7.9.   Kind of debt is that? I mean, is it A big parse portion of it, stream side. Okay. A big portion of it stream side. So the idea would be is once that development comes in, though, that you could use the pile of payments to pay down the debt. Is that is that how that works or no? Well, it could be. Yeah. If you have enough money coming in. No. That's fair. If you have enough but but there's others. I guess if you don't, that's a problem. Yeah. And and and I've I've been that's a serious question that I have. I've been looking at the finances,   and I   I ought to be a 100% honest, I'm having trouble making sense of them Mhmm. Because there there are things that are being done that   they're they're spending money, but the revenue's   not   showing that,   spending's warranted,   pay increases,   raises,   different things like that. The the cost of employee benefits is outrageous. We talked about health insurance earlier.  

So the more people you have, it's it it doesn't get cheaper with health insurance, you know.   So   looking looking at that, it it it's hard for me to justify that based in on today's economy and the things that are going on,   that that debt is justifiable,   and I don't think it is. I don't think their spending is justifiable. Mhmm. I think they they need to   Tighten the purse? Need to tighten the purse. They need  

[01:57:13] Unknown:

to to look at other directions  

[01:57:16] Unknown:

and and and see how that they can manage that. Yeah.  

[01:57:19] Unknown:

So let's get back to the, the vision question.   I guess the best way to ask it is you got a magic wand. You wave it. What does the village of Batavia look like?   That that would be my perspective. Your perspective. Yeah. Well, how would you like to see the village   grow and develop and   and become more prosperous?  

[01:57:43] Unknown:

What avenues would you like to explore? Free free candy on every street corner.  

[01:57:48] Unknown:

Just It's a big rock candy mountain. Ponies for everybody. It's Yeah. Yeah. It's a, you know, sugar mountain. You know?  

[01:57:56] Unknown:

Well, I I I think side of that. I appreciate your question. I really do.   But I think what I want is irrelevant.  

[01:58:03] Unknown:

Okay. And I'm and I'm I'm a 100% Well, let me reframe it then. What do you think the people of Batavia want?  

[01:58:11] Unknown:

I I think a lot of the people of Batavia want something they can never have. Okay. They they want the past. Yeah. They they want things from the past. They want they want, you know, some and it's not necessarily people who have lived here a long time. It's peep maybe people who moved here, and they were looking for this certain,   my my daughter was a big fan of,   the Connecticut   the,   Stars Hollow,   t it's a TV show I'll come back to you. About a mom and a daughter Gilmore Girls. Gilmore Girls. Okay. Okay? So so, you know Hollow. And and TV TV and and media, obviously, that gives us something that's alternative to what we're living. It's an alternate reality to make us happy. It's like that's why Hallmark exists. Yeah. You know, never a sap sad ending for Hallmark. They're all happy. No. They're all happy. Everybody's gonna be good.   So, you know, I think they're looking for that Stars   Hollow kind of thing. Yeah. You know, you got you got so and so at the coffee shop, gonna get a slice of pie and have that, then you're gonna walk down the street, then you're gonna see, you you know, this person and that person is   and I think people are looking for that.  

So maybe that's the answer. Yeah. Maybe it's   not making Batavia movie set. Mhmm. But but bringing some of those things together, and maybe it ties in with   some of the the the the cottage industry people. Maybe it's   it it it has to be something your your your big determining factor at this point is you've got   the bulk of the employee base here is is county. Mhmm. You got county workers. What's the county seat? Right? It's the county seat. Yeah. Yeah.   But you've got the county workers up here. You know, they're the most captive. They're here 08:30 to 04:30, eight whatever their hours, you know, are every day. They're gonna have a lunch hour. We used to see quite a bit of that when we had a coffee shop here in Batavia.   You know, you'd have county workers coming in for lunch.  

But   I I think if you're gonna do something, you start by doing a survey. Mhmm.   And you you talk to everybody.   Yeah. Or you you do your best to talk to everybody. Mhmm. And you talk to property. Hey. What do you need? What what do you want? What do you you know? And and and there are ways you can do that that   you can engage high school students. Mhmm. You can you can engage Clermont College. You annex them into the village. Why not make them welcome? Mhmm.   I know they weren't very welcome when they were first annexed because it's part of what put my wife's coffee shop out of business. Really? Oh, yeah.   She she she lost   between a thousand and $1,500   of sales a week   the moment the village started talking about annexing Clermont College. Why is that?  

They boycotted biz Batavia businesses.   It's happening now.   It's it's happening now. There are Batavia businesses that that can   that can show you their numbers that have gone down significantly since, like, February.   Really? Yeah. That's one of the impact. That's something you have to consider.   You wanna grow. You wanna get bigger?   Well, you're gonna kill something in the process. Yeah. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Right? Yeah. That's not just energy.   That that's that's Yeah. And that's what's going on here.   That she was in the her business was named in the newspaper. She was named personally. I'm gonna miss Jamie. I'm gonna miss this.  

And it was all because the these people's perception   that well, because you live there and because you have a business there, then you've got a voice. Mhmm. And they're gonna listen to you.   Oh,   nah, baby. Nah.   It doesn't happen. Right. You don't have a voice, and that's why and it it it all goes back together when you when you start putting all these puzzle pieces together into what I call the big picture. I mean, that's not my term, is it? Yeah. Everybody knows what the big picture means.   When you start tying all those pieces together,   that picture starts to come becoming clearer and clearer and clearer and less pixelated,   and it becomes bright. Mhmm. That that's one of them. Yeah.  

Yeah.   People don't go to council meetings   because they've been put off like that. Yeah. They've been made to feel unwelcome.   They've been and and and I'm not singling out any in I know individuals that have done that. I know individuals have made peep they've told me. Mhmm. I don't go there because this person makes me uncomfortable. I don't go there because I've seen this person talk this way to this person.   Like, okay.   That's, you know, we're gonna get our feelings hurt that I understand. Right. But we've got to to stay the course and and achieve something here for community. And that's that's why the council meetings don't have people   because there's they they aren't engaged. They aren't involved.  

So if they're not, then you have to reach out to them.   So   get an email list. Mhmm. Get a text phone tree.   Get something that's going to be secure   so that that when when there is a meeting, may maybe it's a you got a text phone tree and and you send out a text that says,   okay. We're we're gonna   we're gonna close Main Street forever, and it's gonna be a walking district. Mhmm. Send that text out to to everybody in the phone tree Mhmm. And just get a a a one means yes, a two means no. Yeah.   Gauge that. Yeah. Okay. Well, we got a lot of lot of twos,   few ones.  

Maybe maybe we shouldn't do this. Yeah.   Encourage people to be involved.   That that that's something that needs to be done. So my idea is kinda like what we're doing here. We're we're talking into a couple of microphones. Mhmm.   I watch, some some YouTubers,   in England. They they   they maintained their canals   that   were a big part of the,   economic revolution over there, industrial revolution. So they transported goods, coal and salt and   and flour and and cotton and wool, and they use these canals for transportation. Well, that's all gone away from due to railroads and transportation methods. I grew up in Middletown. The the Erie Canal went right over there. Yeah. So most of the Erie Canal's gone. Yeah. There's still some places in Middletown. There's some locks and things that break through. Right. In England, they're still there, and it's used mainly for recreational. So you've got these people on these narrowboats.   Mhmm.  

It's it's kinda like a a a floating trailer. Yeah. I mean, it's six it's, like, six feet wide,   40 to 70 feet long, and these people will will show traveling on these narrowboats, going through locks, all this kind of thing. Kinda cool. It it yeah.   So   but   they all have and it's like you you you and I talked about before this, about the technology that's available. Mhmm. They're maybe they're recording on an iPhone. Yeah. Well, you know those iPhones   or Android. I don't wanna and I'm not endorsing a a product here for anybody.   But but, you know, the quality of that is is not your nineteen seventies camcorder.  

You can put microphones. They they most of them have clip on microphones,   and they're outside,  

[02:05:15] Unknown:

and there's wind blowing, and there's ducks on the canal and making all kinds of noises, but you can hear them clearly. Yeah. So And I can tell you from experience, those rigs aren't very expensive. Right. So so that's cheap. But Right. It's not like you need a $100,000   to create some kind of sound studio or something.  

[02:05:33] Unknown:

Exactly. But that's going to to that's a step towards transparency. Mhmm. Those microphones   and that recording.   Record every council meeting.   Record every committee meeting. Mhmm. Put one of those microphones on everybody's lapel. Mhmm.   If if you're a speaker from the public, you have to stand before a microphone and speak. Mhmm.   All of that can be transcribed.   All of it can be recorded.   All of it can be shown on YouTube, Rumble, any number of of sites. So many.   So there there's a way   to get all that information out to show it to the people. Mhmm.   I think that's important.  



[02:06:13] Unknown:

Yeah. I'd agree with that. I because because And not just for Batavia. I mean, it's Oh, oh, yeah. Who who's who's got the who who wants to take the time, first of all? You know? You're you're you're living Listen. When I started doing this, I I sat down and I thought because I do a little news segment in the beginning. I try to find things that are going on. Right. I thought, oh, you know what? I'll just flip through meeting agendas and meeting minutes and and I'll kinda read off what's going on. I started reading them. I was like, I have no idea what's going on. Sure. Like, I don't know there's no context for any of these things. Most of them are just voted and passed through. Absolutely.  

[02:06:46] Unknown:

And I don't have the time to go to every single township and village meeting in the county. Yeah. And and most people don't have time to go to a a village council meeting either. Well, exactly. They've got children. They've they've,   you know, you're gonna get dinner. You've worked all day.   Unfortunately, we had two family incomes in every household and normal.   It's it's It's difficult. Oh, what's going on at 07:00 tonight that that we need to hear about on Monday? Yeah. It's no we've got   soccer. We've got this. We've got that. So maybe they could watch it, you know,   later Monday night. Yeah. Maybe Tuesday or, you know, whatever. So can we take a break? Yeah. Absolutely. Here. I'll I'll pause it.  

Great.   We'll get to we'll save it on Spotify and listen forever.  

[02:07:33] Unknown:

I did. I don't we're back recording.   And just for everybody's,   I guess, to make so they don't think I'm doing weird edits or something like that. I assume you just went to the restroom or something like that. Absolutely. Yeah. And I turned my mic off, so it wasn't an embarrassing situation. I've seen that on TV. But I have to. Yeah.   So like I like I said off, Mike, while we were just chatting,   we'll go ahead and take this home, and   I'll just give you the floor to give everybody   a pitch for why you should be on the council of the village of Batavia. Take as long or as short as you want.  

[02:08:10] Unknown:

Well, I'm I'm   it's kinda goes along with with what I do in the insurance industry.   I'm I'm not a salesman.   I don't know. That that term gets has a connotation to it that, you know, you you everybody gets a picture of of somebody twisting their arm   to to get them to buy a product or do a thing or   I'm not that politician either.   I'm not a politician,   and and you'll you'll hear lots of politicians say that. I'm sure. You know?   I I I don't have political aspirations. This is not a stepping stone for me. I'm I'm not gonna   going to,   serve,   term village council and then run for mayor and then run for township trustee, then county commissioner state. You know? I'm not you know, I'll be too old. Yeah. You know? You know? And and and I'm I'm not   I'm not that person that that that has those desires.  

I don't want that recognition.   What I want is I want   I want   the good aspects   of my community back, of our community back.   Community is a term to me, and I think we touched on this a little bit.   It it's it's a it's it's not an easy definition.   You know, there there are there's a community here at my house. There's a community of our neighbors and it expands and and and develops over time, bringing other people together.   But that that's that's what I'm looking at this,   and it's my opportunity   to to bring people together.   It's it's always been kind of a joke.  

You'll hear hear stories about me.   I've yet to hear one that's true.   I I've heard several things that are just funny, and and they'll they'll say, well, Kinner did this, and it's like,   you know? You know? I don't have a great memory, but there's I'd remember that. I'd be telling people. Yeah. I did that. But but I I wanna bring back that that at least what that feel or maintain that feel of of what this village is. And it's   it's it's a community of people that that that work together, that live together, that that,   that that want something that   that is tangible.  

It's it's that, like I said, that stars hollow thing that, you know,   we're not all gonna get along ever.   We're all gonna have different opinions. It'd be creepy if we did. Oh, I I think it'd be really creepy. Everybody agreed. Yeah. Yeah. That would be a Hallmark movie. Yeah. Like Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Yeah. You know, I have I have people that support me   that that I know a 100%.   If you give something on a federal level,   we have different ideas. Yeah.   And that's that's what that's what makes everything great is different ideas.   Because a combination somewhere between those two, you find find what works for everybody. Yeah. But but I want I want a community back. I I want something where it's it's,   you know, of the people, by the people, for the people. You know, and and I didn't make that up. You know? That's written by by by some pretty intelligent people.  

But but that's what I want.   I don't see representation   for the people in this village.   I I see it as an Us versus them   inside   just like it is outside.   You know, I I've I've seen a councilman   call a speaker   at at a village meeting an outsider.   Yeah. You know, he that that council person might have well have just insulted   that person and and called him a, I don't know, every dirty name in the book. Mhmm.   There are no outsiders.   We're all insiders.   We're we're all part of the community. And and how you touch that community,   whether it's you're in the school district, whether you live in the township,   whether whether you live in the heart, if you live on Main Street,   you're you're part of Batavia. You're a Batavian.  



[02:12:19] Unknown:

Mhmm.  

[02:12:20] Unknown:

I've had tremendous support   from people who no longer live in Batavia,   who who live on the East Coast, on the West Coast,   people who grew up here, people that remember their Batavia. Mhmm.   And they want to see at least   some   aspect of that   maintained.   And it's like I said, I can't really give you a definition of what that is. Yeah. I can't tell you what the character but it it's it's a it's a it's a beautiful place to live.   It's a great place to raise your children.   It's it's it's somewhere   that will instill in you a memory   of a life   that you're proud to live.  

And and that's what I wanna see for everybody that's here.   You know? It I I wanna see people get along. I wanna see people work together. You know? If you've got an empty building on Main Street,   let me try and help you find somebody to move in.   Maybe maybe we can work out a deal with the cottage baker and   and start off. She can pay you $50 or e. Yeah. No no no sexual discrimination   against bakers. I mean, you told me you do some art. I do. I do. I really like bacon bread. Yeah. So so, you know, maybe $50 to get you started would do something. You know?   The village gave $200,000   to a local business   as well as gave them land Mhmm. At a very   dollar a month rate. They've just recently given $50,000   for another business with a number of employees to move into town.  

I think with $50,000,   I could create an incubator that would bring   a lot of people,   several businesses, several different things. Maybe we could create something. So so that's what I want. I wanna bring back an inclusive community that works together. That's that   that you when you have the homecoming parade on Main Street, Batavia, it means something.   Not a, oh, it's just a path that we can use, and it's not   you know, right now, I wouldn't blame the the the schools if they just had the homecoming parade around the property up there   and not come down here. Yeah. I I don't blame a lot of people for not coming down here. So I I wanna see that that community come back. I I want to encourage,   come to Batavia, buy Batavia,   but I wanna give you a reason   to do that, to be proud of it, and and to love it as much as I have.  

And my family has. We've been here since   since the early eighteen hundreds.   Different generations of my family.   My fourth great grandmother,   Mary Steele McCormick Lewis   is buried right up here at the Union Batavia Union Cemetery. She came here from Virginia.   Mhmm. Had 12 kids, all Lewis'.   So I I wanna see that that continue   rather than just being a a dot on a map or a ZIP code.   You know, I I don't wanna see it go away. Yeah.   So I'd like to do something that I can to make a contribution that I believe will help save it, but I want   the listeners to help. Yeah. I'm not doing this for me.  

I'm doing it for all of us.   So  

[02:15:39] Unknown:

I hope that answers and No. I I honestly, that's a good final pitch. And with that, I think I'm gonna call it a successful podcast.   And thank you. Thank you very much for your time. I think,   like, I've I think I've thanked all the the candidates for this, but it's just really important to hear from in a long form   kind of way to hear what our candidates are thinking. So I really appreciate you participating. Absolutely. Thank thank you for asking me. It's an honor. Awesome.   Well, thank you.   Thanks again to Mike for sitting down with me and for talking to us.   I said in the intro, I really enjoyed talking to him. I I think he's, I think he's a pretty nice guy.  

And we're gonna have him back on, win or lose. He we I know in the interview, we talked a little bit about no dig gardening. And, honestly, he just seems like he's got a wealth of experience and knowledge when it comes to zoning and development, things like that. So it'll be nice to have him on again, win or lose. And like all of our candidates,   we're going to wish him the best of luck come November 4.   Alright. Let's get into some events. We've got some new ones for you today. We'll start with some old ones, but we'll get into some new ones. First up is Forged Tea Time and Hike brewing botanical potions. This is gonna be October 25 from 05:30PM   to 06:30PM   at Kligman Park. It is an autumn nature program where you will learn to identify and forage local plants to brew a witchy herbal tea potion.  

The event includes a short guided hike, weather permitting, and encourages attendees to wear fun witch themed attire.   This free workshop   requires preregistration   and is designed for ages 12 and up. And if you're interested and wanna register, I'm sure you can do that on the park's website.   Next, we have the Howell O'Ween dog costume hike, October 25, 6PM at Shore Park. It is a Halloween themed evening for dog lovers.   Dress up your pup in costume   in a costume for a self paced night hike through the park. Enjoy treat stations for both humans and dogs, photo ops, and you get to meet adoptable dogs, I'm sure they're adorable too, from the county animal shelter.   Leashes are required,   but no registration is needed, and it is free and obviously pet friendly.  

Next, we have Cincinnati Nature Center, nature's tricks and treats, October 25, 06:30PM   to 8PM   at Cincinnati Nature Center Row Woods.   It is a family friendly nighttime fall festival on the nature trails of the Cincinnati Nature Center. Guests follow a flashlight lit trail through the woods to encounter tricks and treats at various stations.   Everything from games to crafts to learning about nocturnal animals.   Costumes are encouraged for kids and adults, and adventurous   participants   who complete the whole trail can win a small prize.   There is a a fee for tickets. It's $10 for members, $18 for nonmembers, and it runs rain or shine. So dress for the weather and bring a flashlight.  

Next, we have family fun night haunted Halloween hangout.   This is October 28 from 06:30 to 07:45PM   at the Goshen Branch Library.   You get to craft a mini haunted house, play Halloween bingo, and enjoy light snacks in a low scare setting for kids and families. Costumes are welcome.   Supplies are provided while they has while they last, and it is completely free.   Next, we have Clermont County Booze Bash Halloween party. This is gonna be October 29 from four to 6PM   at the RJ Cinema Distillery and Taproom.   It is a Halloween happy hour and costume party.   Oh, I'm sorry. Costume contest   hosted by the Clermont,   the Clermont Chamber of Commerce.  

It is open to members and community guests.   Attendees are encouraged to creep it real   by wearing their best costumes   and can compete for prizes and categories like most creative   costume, best group costume, and funniest costume.   Entertainment includes tarot card readings by a local chamber ambassador,   and this is probably my favorite.   DJ spicy noodle   is going to be spinning festive tunes to keep the party lively.   Tickets include one complimentary themed drink and light appetizers,   making for a spooktacular   networking event in a fun casual setting.  

I I really love DJ spicy noodle.   I might have to go to that just to hear DJ spicy noodle.   Anyway,   next up,   a the countywide trick or treat, October 31. Hope you're all ready for Halloween. I've got a gigantic bear onesie that it's actually pretty pretty comfy. Kind of excited to wear it. Normally, I'm against comfortable clothing, but,   I'll make a exception for Halloween. Anyway,   at any rate, October 31,   six to 8PM across Clermont County,   most municipalities and townships, including Batavia, Bethel, Goshen, Miami Township, Milford to Richmond, Pierce Township, Union Township, and Williamsburg,   Observe a six to 8PM for door to door trick or treating on Halloween night. Check your community's page for any weather updates.  

If the porch lights are on, that means   you need to be giving candy to kids.   Don't be a curmudgeon.   Kids love Halloween. So if you're not there, turn your lights off so we so we don't waste our time knocking on your door.   Next up, we have a genealogy workshop, Bluegrass State Research on November 1 from one to 3PM   at the Doris Wood Branch Library. You'll learn strategies for tracing Kentucky ancestors,   boundary changes, record gaps, and where to find sources from certified genealogist   Dana Palmer.   It is free and open to the public to attend, and you can attend in person or via Zoom. And it is hosted by the Clermont County Genealogical   Society.  

As a side note, we interviewed Paige Craig not too long ago. It's a really cool episode. She talks all about genealogy.   And And if you wanna know more about this event, you can go to the Clermont County Gene Genealogical   Society website.   Next, we have women's camping retreat. This is gonna be overnight on November 1,   the Shiloh Lock 34 Park Park.   It is adults only 21 and over, and it is an overnight at the Shiloh Lock 34 and Crooked Run Nature Preserve   with choose your own activities, outdoor skills, museum tour, canoe float conditions permitting,   campfire cooking, s'mores, charcuterie,   yoga, and more. It is free to register, but you need to bring your own camping gear. There are limited yurts available,   and you do need to preregister because space is limited, and you can do that on the park's website.  

Last but not least, Cincinnati   Fall Avant Garde Art and Craft Show, November 2 at the RSVP Event Center in Loveland. It is a one day juried show with over 60 makers. There'll be handmade jewelry, decor, apparel, fine art, and seasonal gifts,   and on-site con concessions.   It is $3 for admission. Kids 12 and under are free, and a portion of the proceeds   benefit animal aid nonprofit, Cuddly.   It's a great early holiday shopping   close to home in Clermont County.   And I would be very interested to see what avant garde crafts are.   Another one I might have to go to just to see,   see what's what.  

Alright. Those are all the events that we have.   And a quick note, I do my best to find as many as I can, and I know I don't get them all. So if you know an event or of an event or you have an event that you'd like people to know about, send an email. Info let's talk info@let'stalkclermont.com.   I can't promise I'll talk about all the events because that could turn into, like, an hour long   ending segment, but   I'll try to do as many as I can. If you know of one, let me know.   Alright. That will bring us to our final value for value pitch. Because like we said in the intro, we run a value for value model so that we can stay independent.   And what that means is that if you find value in what we're doing, we just ask for a little value in return, and that can be in the form of time, talent, or treasure. For time and talent, let us know who you'd like us to talk to. Let us know what's going on in your community. We wanna hear from you. Also think about that question I've been asking. What is the character of our county? What are we trying to preserve in the face of all of this development pressure?  

And if you're a high school sports, fanatic or enthusiast, let me know because I'd love to have a high school sports rundown, and we will make that happen.   For treasure, go to the website, www.let'stalkclairemont.com.   Click that donate tab, and you can donate via PayPal or Stripe. Or if you wanna donate a different way, just let me know, and we will make that happen.   Any dollar amount is greatly appreciated, but for donors $50 and above, you will get a special show mentioned. And for donors 200 and above, you will get an executive producer credit that is a real credit.   And while reading a note on air, and that note can be anything, ad read for your business, one of those nasty grams I wanna give a dramatic reading to, or anything else really. Like I've said, within reason, I'm not gonna read some kind of hate filled   manifesto or some kind of personal grievance against your neighbor or something like that.  

But within reason, I will absolutely read whatever it is you wanna want to write in.   And connect with us on Facebook, Let's Talk Clermont podcast on Instagram at Let's Talk Clermont, and we got the newsletter that we're gonna be spicing up after the election season. Please sign up for that.   Www.let'stalkclermont.com.   Click the newsletter tab. Put your email in there, and you're only gonna get one a week, and it will be when a new episode comes out. And please follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts,   or whatever it is you use for podcast. It really helps the show out, and it'll help you out because you'll be notified anytime   a new show goes live. And if you just wanna get in touch and say hi, info@let'stalkclermont.com.  

Send your notes in. I would love to read them.   So that's all we got for today. I'm telling you this,   man,   This has been quite a sprint to the fourth, so I'm I'm glad you've stuck with it. Thank you so much for listening,   and we will see you next time.